Expectations

[zenzero]

Friends,What ever we do; we always have *EXPECTATION* from it. We want a favourable result [expectation]. When a child is born, parents starts *Expecting* something from the child. A superman, something, something.The society expects from individuals as law abiding, tax payer etc.Individuals have expectations from their parents, society and when ever there is a mismatch Imbances happens causing mental sufferings.It can also be called DESIRES.Enlightened people therefore said ' DO NOT DESIRE / HAVE EXPECTATIONS and live a HAPPY LIFE.Whatever one needs is already given by existence then why desire and have expectations and live in hell?Heaven / hell are no places after death. After death is far off. Be HERE-NOW. The future will take care of itself. The PRCOCESS starts HERE-NOW.Comments / understandings/ brickbats / experiences/ whatever.Love & rgds

[Heneni]

Id like to chat to you about this, though i'm not dharmic.??

I think what you are trying to say, a person has to catch, it can not be taught. The english language has to be used to do so, and for each english word people have their own mental image of what it means.

About expectations...for me its a bit unnatural to not have any expectations.

When people get married they make vows. Surely they do this expecting it to be kept. And I dont think that is wrong.

Dont expectations run the world.

We expect to get value for our money
We expect the lights to go on when we switch it on, because we paid for it
We expect stuff to work when we buy it.

If it doesnt, and we just leave it...then we are just encouraging neglect.

But on the other hand I can see how not having attachments to stuff can be useful to live a life of 'freedom'.

But For me, its not the expectation that is the issue, so much as it is our response to expectations met or not met.

What's your thoughts on this?

[Phasmid]

Without desire nothing would happen... life would be extremely dull. "No expectations, no dissapointment" is all well and good, but negative emotions aren't necessarily bad.

Bad emotions can prompt positive action, so why do we try to bury them, or call them illusions?

In fact I was reading an article in New Scientist today, which shows that the body and even the brain react positively to stress and toxins. Vitimins when taken in too large a dose, cause harm, while a little causes positive effects, the same is often true with toxins or stress, though in different dosages.

It prepares the body, trains it. People think fruit and vegetables are good for them due to antioxidants, while that's not true, since you'd have to eat more than you're capable of, to get such benefits. They're good for you're body because they contain certain substances, which cause stress reactions in your body, which causes the body to "brace for impact" so to speak. Same thing with exercise, even deep thinking causes neural fibers to strengthen due to being used/stressed.

In the same way, negative emotions strengthen us, bad feelings aren't to be ignored or buried with philosophic rhetoric.

[michaelm]

I was just reading in the Mahabharata about how we should not always be forgiving, and there is something called righteous anger, otherwise we would be the target of bad people for whom forgiveness has no effect, causing suffering not only on ourselves, but also on family and friends .
It is sometimes necessary to deal with wrongdoing not by tolerance and forgiveness, but by opposing it - anger is perhaps the wrong word, since it is commonly taught that we should always act with a cool head.

In order to follow this there is some need to have expectations. To have NO expectations whatsoever makes it impossible for this principle to exist, since 'wrongdoing' cannot have an way of being recognised as such without it.

What we should avoid are the emotions that go with it. We should understand some people do wrong, some need forgiveness, sometimes it is necessay to not forgive.

It seems to me that all the way through this scripture the message is telling us that we have a tendency to want black or white rules. Clear cut rules, this is right, that is wrong. However in reality this is not wise. We must exercise judgement about the situation, the person, the consequences if we forgive, the consequences if we do not forgive.

[Phasmid]

It probably causes more stress (not a healthy amount) to try and avoid negative emotions, than it does to simply let yourself be negative for a while.

Thinking, "I must not feel this way" or, "I don't want to feel desire... oh no, there I go again" are likely to do more harm than good.

[zenzero]

Friends,
Responding to everyones posts but taking each one's query to do so but meant for everyone.
Friend Michaelm writes

I was just reading in the Mahabharata about how we should not always be forgiving, and there is something called righteous anger, otherwise we would be the target of bad people for whom forgiveness has no effect, causing suffering not only on ourselves, but also on family and friends .
It is sometimes necessary to deal with wrongdoing not by tolerance and forgiveness, but by opposing it - anger is perhaps the wrong word, since it is commonly taught that we should always act with a cool head.

Yes, it is here that Gautama the Buddha went a bit deeper than the Sanatan Dharma [hinduism] and found SILENCE/NOTHINGNESS is the final destination and any wrong doer when faced with Silence sees his own face as SILENCE automatically reflects or acts as a mirror to the wrong doer; which is enough to bring about the necessary change. No one changed him but change did take place BUT when the mirror was placed and that mirror is SILENCE. This was proved when Angulimala was confronted by Buddha. Yes, here he did speak but those words were not of confrontations or opposing Angulimala's way but just creating a situation to act as agent of change for Angulimala. But the silence/ peace/serene wall is evident that is so imposing that all efforts fail.
Agree with your last line * act with cool head*. This cool is only cool not a flicker of anger even.
BUT first we ourself have to be that WALL of silence to remain cool.
[rest of your response is self explainatory]
Love & rgds

[zenzero]

Friends,
Now taking friend Heneni's response.

Id like to chat to you about this, though i'm not dharmic.??

Yes, we are Chatting now.

I think what you are trying to say, a person has to catch, it can not be taught. The english language has to be used to do so, and for each english word people have their own mental image of what it means.

Yes, you have understood it rightly.

About expectations...for me its a bit unnatural to not have any expectations.
Yes, it appears un-natural but NATURAL comes first before it becomes un-natural.
When people get married they make vows. Surely they do this expecting it to be kept. And I dont think that is wrong.
No, it is not wrong but when it does not happen then what happens? unhappiness
Dont expectations run the world.
The world runs on its own; we only THINK that the MIND rules.
We expect to get value for our money.
We are not born with money.
We expect the lights to go on when we switch it on, because we paid for it
We expect stuff to work when we buy it.
Right, but you get angry when it does not work. Anger is a negative charge

If it doesnt, and we just leave it...then we are just encouraging neglect.

No, one should not leave it but carry on doing what one is suppossed to, to get it working to the best of one's ability.
But on the other hand I can see how not having attachments to stuff can be useful to live a life of 'freedom'.
That is what life is all about. One is born in the garden of Eden but still is not living there and that Eden is not somewhere in heaven after death. It is HERE-NOW.

But For me, its not the expectation that is the issue, so much as it is our response to expectations met or not met.
Either way, Even if you are expecting a response, that too is an expectation.

What's your thoughts on this?
None, only DEEDS. As Thinking is where SATAN entered our human life. One has to be totally aware of one's thoughts and be its master or else even though living in the garden of Eden live in HELL.
Love & rgds

[zenzero]

Friends,
Taking friend Phasmid's response:

Without desire nothing would happen... life would be extremely dull. "No expectations, no dissapointment" is all well and good, but negative emotions aren't necessarily bad.
Nothing is good or bad, desires/expectations are all part of dualities and one has to rise above them to be free of them.
Bad emotions can prompt positive action, so why do we try to bury them, or call them illusions?
same as above.
In fact I was reading an article in New Scientist today, which shows that the body and even the brain react positively to stress and toxins. Vitimins when taken in too large a dose, cause harm, while a little causes positive effects, the same is often true with toxins or stress, though in different dosages.

It prepares the body, trains it. People think fruit and vegetables are good for them due to antioxidants, while that's not true, since you'd have to eat more than you're capable of, to get such benefits. They're good for you're body because they contain certain substances, which cause stress reactions in your body, which causes the body to "brace for impact" so to speak. Same thing with exercise, even deep thinking causes neural fibers to strengthen due to being used/stressed.

In the same way, negative emotions strengthen us, bad feelings aren't to be ignored or buried with philosophic rhetoric.
Let the body do its own work as mentioned above one has to rise above dualities.
Love & rgds

[Phasmid]

Originally Posted by zenzero

Let the body do its own work as mentioned above one has to rise above dualities.
Love & rgds

... why?