Anti-Karma (ritual, Earth, reincarnate, grace, disciple)

[capslockf9]

Karma is a term synanimous with result. (You can have bad karma or good karma.) And this result from actions. Actions can be performed in an awareness or in an unenlightened state of mind. Actions produce the result.
Analogous : A tree is what is what is is because of past seed activity. You future "tree" will be a result todays actions.

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

Everything in the universe seems to have it's equal opposite. Does Karma also have an opposite? They say that what goes around comes around. If that's Karma, then maybe Anti-Karma would be like nature. Nature abhors a vacuum. When you give something to one person, another goes without it. Also, the greater one persons success, the greater the envy from others. The more good you try to do, the stronger evil has to be to equal things out. Is there anything taught about Anti-Karma in the Dharmic Religions?

I don't think karma has an opposite. Karma is about reaction. It has valence.

The closest thing to anti-karma might be ignorance of its operation in which case neither concept if of concern.

[MysticSang'ha]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

Everything in the universe seems to have it's equal opposite. Does Karma also have an opposite? They say that what goes around comes around. If that's Karma, then maybe Anti-Karma would be like nature. Nature abhors a vacuum. When you give something to one person, another goes without it. Also, the greater one persons success, the greater the envy from others. The more good you try to do, the stronger evil has to be to equal things out. Is there anything taught about Anti-Karma in the Dharmic Religions?

As far as I'm concerned, your first sentence summed up karma in and of itself. Newton's Third Law, you know.

You get out what you put in. You reap what you sow. What goes around comes around. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Your examples concerning doing without, envy, and the question of evil have nothing to do with Karma (universal). They have more to do with karma (personal).

Hope I made sense.




Peace,
Mystic

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

As far as I'm concerned, your first sentence summed up karma in and of itself. Newton's Third Law, you know.

I recognize you are a Buddhist dear Heather, but you are incorrect. The law of Karma is actually for every action there is an equal and SIMILAR reaction!!! If you do "bad" then you can expect reality to respond in kind. If you do "good" then you can expect reality to mirror your "good" actions. Sadly however, good and bad are merely value judgments and have no real meaning at the end of the day. In theory so-called bad actions can cause a catharsis within the individual that moves them to change their ways. In that respect, since the bad precipitated the change within the individual can you really say, after all is said and done that it was a bad action?

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

You get out what you put in. You reap what you sow. What goes around comes around. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

See above. Every action has an equal and SIMILAR reaction, at least when taken from an internal (psychic/psychological) perspective, not a physical perspective such a Newton was describing. I stress that in no way is it EVER an opposite reaction. If that were the case then we would likely deem Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin as being close to god as the result of their "evil" was the birth of much "good". (I hope you can see how narrow the focus of that lens is.) There is ONLY experience. It is we ourselves who determine via our own prejudices what constitutes "good" and "bad". One must be wary about ascribing dualistic concepts to multidimensional values (like karma) as one only ends up short changing themselves through their abysmally limited focus.

BTW: Xexon stated at the start of this thread that "karma" does not exist in the higher spiritual realms and I would suggest he is not terribly knowledgable in this area... no pun intended. To suggest that one EVER rises beyond karma is absurd and has its basis in limited flesh-based thinking. Karma IS and always will be your own personal self correcting mechanism somewhat like how subatomic particles are bound by weak forces and strong forces so we are forever bound by karma. Any other position is simply delusional.

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

Your examples concerning doing without, envy, and the question of evil have nothing to do with Karma (universal). They have more to do with karma (personal).

Heather, there is no difference in karma due to the nature of Oneness. This is a dualistic illusion, period.

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

Hope I made sense.

You did hon, but never think for a second that I a belittling your contribution. You are a solid example of a pure Buddhist and you certainly help bring back memories within this old fossil.

I dunno Heather but it is like mankind has only been given a very, very limited view of reality from an internal perspective. My deep suspicion is that many monks led isolated lives and withdrew from worldly affairs. This certainly helped them to achieve enlightenment, but it also cut them off from the deep and wonderful connections with their imperfect brothers and sisters of mankind. Here I mean it is somewhat like asking a child who grew up in a wealthy family what it is like to be poor. They can speculate, but they really do not know. They have no experience with it and so cannot really imagine the nuances of what it is like to go without or to be hungry. It is a similiar situation with many of the sages throughout the ages who have lost their ability to RELATE to their fellow human animals.

I hope that makes sense.

[Random]

Karma means you reap what you sow in conditional states of living, so if there is an opposite of Karma is could be said to be injustice.

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by Random

Karma means you reap what you sow in conditional states of living, so if there is an opposite of Karma is could be said to be injustice.

But even there Random, injustice is just another aspect of looking at the world through a dualistic lens. Karma is beyond duality and is a governing aspect of Oneness. It matters not in the slightest if the individual has experienced that sense of Oneness or not, for they are still bound by karma, although they might have to stub their toes a bit more than a so-called "enlightened" personality would.

The idea that karma is like a chequebook is ludicrous due to our erroneous sense of time. You are simply NOT bound by actions committed in previous lives as all lives are lived simultaneously. Time is absent from the equation therefore in larger terms there is no past and there is no future. There is only now and karma operates in the Now or current present.

[Random]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

But even there Random, injustice is just another aspect of looking at the world through a dualistic lens. Karma is beyond duality and is a governing aspect of Oneness. It matters not in the slightest if the individual has experienced that sense of Oneness or not, for they are still bound by karma, although they might have to stub their toes a bit more than a so-called "enlightened" personality would.

The idea that karma is like a chequebook is ludicrous due to our erroneous sense of time. You are simply NOT bound by actions committed in previous lives as all lives are lived simultaneously. Time is absent from the equation therefore in larger terms there is no past and there is no future. There is only now and karma operates in the Now or current present.

Meaning "Instant Karma", yes quite. The thing about Simultaneity is that although yes, lives are lived @ once out of spacetime in truth, as soon as one becomes conscious of action and identifies ones-Self as the "do-er" of the deed then it immediately goes with the mind into the past and, the seed thus sown, one reaps the karmic rewards or punishments for it. Unconditional Oneness is meant to be an abstraction to a conditional entity experiencing the temporal "other".

[MysticSang'ha]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

I recognize you are a Buddhist dear Heather, but you are incorrect. The law of Karma is actually for every action there is an equal and SIMILAR reaction!!! If you do "bad" then you can expect reality to respond in kind. If you do "good" then you can expect reality to mirror your "good" actions. Sadly however, good and bad are merely value judgments and have no real meaning at the end of the day. In theory so-called bad actions can cause a catharsis within the individual that moves them to change their ways. In that respect, since the bad precipitated the change within the individual can you really say, after all is said and done that it was a bad action?

Hey, Paul! Long time no see!

All I can say is that I stand corrected from my earlier post.

See above. Every action has an equal and SIMILAR reaction, at least when taken from an internal (psychic/psychological) perspective, not a physical perspective such a Newton was describing. I stress that in no way is it EVER an opposite reaction. If that were the case then we would likely deem Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin as being close to god as the result of their "evil" was the birth of much "good". (I hope you can see how narrow the focus of that lens is.) There is ONLY experience. It is we ourselves who determine via our own prejudices what constitutes "good" and "bad". One must be wary about ascribing dualistic concepts to multidimensional values (like karma) as one only ends up short changing themselves through their abysmally limited focus.

Hmmmm, maybe my attempt to describe karma from a dualistic perspective wound up losing the meaning behind karma in the first place..........however, there are times when introducing karma that dualistic terms of "positive" or "negative", "good" or "evil", etc. tend to make more sense for some folks than simply shedding dualistic concepts as a whole. Not everyone is that detached from egoistic graspings.

But that's OK.

BTW: Xexon stated at the start of this thread that "karma" does not exist in the higher spiritual realms and I would suggest he is not terribly knowledgable in this area... no pun intended. To suggest that one EVER rises beyond karma is absurd and has its basis in limited flesh-based thinking. Karma IS and always will be your own personal self correcting mechanism somewhat like how subatomic particles are bound by weak forces and strong forces so we are forever bound by karma. Any other position is simply delusional.

On that point we agree.......as pertains to the desire realms of samsara.

Heather, there is no difference in karma due to the nature of Oneness. This is a dualistic illusion, period.

You did hon, but never think for a second that I a belittling your contribution. You are a solid example of a pure Buddhist and you certainly help bring back memories within this old fossil.

LOL I'm not sure about being such a solid example. I have my own delusions and attachments that I'm still working out.

I dunno Heather but it is like mankind has only been given a very, very limited view of reality from an internal perspective. My deep suspicion is that many monks led isolated lives and withdrew from worldly affairs. This certainly helped them to achieve enlightenment, but it also cut them off from the deep and wonderful connections with their imperfect brothers and sisters of mankind. Here I mean it is somewhat like asking a child who grew up in a wealthy family what it is like to be poor. They can speculate, but they really do not know. They have no experience with it and so cannot really imagine the nuances of what it is like to go without or to be hungry. It is a similiar situation with many of the sages throughout the ages who have lost their ability to RELATE to their fellow human animals.

True, but at least they can do cool things like levitate and walk through walls.




Peace,
Mystic