Eastern Beliefs similarities (moral, Buddhism, pagan, catholic, moral)

[Engyo]

Originally Posted by Victor

What is the difference between the god taking human form and god that is in you?

~Victor

From a Buddhist standpoint gods are non-human unenlightened beings with the same potential to attain enlightenment that human beings have. Thus the above statement doesn't parse from a Buddhist perspective.

[michel]

I would far rather have Seyorni's input; this is all totally new to me, and obviously, I am struggling with some of the concepts.


I have noted the following points that I think may be pertinent to your point Victor;

"The Self is everywhere," says the Isha Upanishad. "Whoever sees all beings in the Self, and the Self in all beings, hates none. For one who sees oneness everywhere, how can there be delusion or grief?"

I find the above a rather beautiful concept..........

"Vedanta says that all religions contain within themselves the same essential truths, although the packaging is different. And that is good. Every human being on the planet is unique. Not one of us really practices the same religion. Every person's mind is different and every person needs his or her own unique path to reach the top of the mountain. Some paths are narrow, some are broad. Some are winding and difficult and some are safe and dull. Eventually we'll all get to the top of the mountain; we don't have to worry about our neighbors getting lost along the way. They'll do just fine. We all need different approaches to fit our different natures."
"Swami Shivananda, one of Ramakrishna's disciples, said: "If God does not come down as a human being, how will human beings love him? That is why He comes to human beings as a human being. People can love Him as a father, mother, brother, friend—they can take any of these attitudes. And He comes to each in whatever form that person loves."

"What Vedanta says is that God can and does manifest through human form, and that, for most people, it is easier to meditate upon and love a God with form rather than a nebulous idea of infinite being, consciousness, and bliss. This, however, is a matter of temperament. Many people achieve spiritual growth through meditation upon the avatar; they are followers of the path of bhakti yoga. Yet for others this is entirely the wrong approach: those who are more intellectual than emotional may well achieve greater spiritual awareness through jnana yoga."

I am not sure if you can gleam the answer to your question in the above, Victor, but I think it lies therein.

I have asked Seyorni to look at my post, and correct me where I am wrong.

[Seyorni]

"God that is in you": God interpenetrates you like water interpenetes a sponge thrown into a lake. The water inside the sponge is identical to and one with the water in the lake.

God taking human form, from a Hindu perspective, sounds like the phenomenon known as Avatar. An Avatar incarnates periodically when mankind degenerates into darkness. an Avatar may take the form of a human, but is, in fact, Brahma incarnate. It redirects human society onto the path most conducive of spiritual evolution.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

"God that is in you": God interpenetrates you like water interpenetes a sponge thrown into a lake. The water inside the sponge is identical to and one with the water in the lake.

God taking human form, from a Hindu perspective, sounds like the phenomenon known as Avatar. An Avatar incarnates periodically when mankind degenerates into darkness. an Avatar may take the form of a human, but is, in fact, Brahma incarnate. It redirects human society onto the path most conducive of spiritual evolution.

Thank you my friend;

I think I did understand the concept, but you have put it very eloquently. I am obliged for your clarification.
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Seyorni again.

[Victor]

I think I am beggining to grasp it a bit.....maybe I'm just slow..

So does God incarnate made up of the same substance as me or you? What is different if we are all ONE? Is God incarnate made out of the same STUFF or what have you?
How do you identify him?

~Victor

[Seyorni]

Look around you, Victor. You're surrounded by thousands of things, of different substances, shapes, colors, physical qualities. All of these things are composed of only 92 fundamental elements, and these elements are composed of only three fundamental particles. Great diversity can arise from a very simple, even unified substrate.

From a metaphysical standpoint it is all a function of consciousness. Unlike western theology, Eastern philosophy is all about levels of consciousness. Consider a dream (2nd-state consciousness). When I dream I am unaware of other states of consciousness. The dream is my reality. My dream experiences are real, my dream achievements and disappointments are real. The fact that things are happening that fly in the face of physical possibility does not occur to me -- such is the reality of 2nd-state. If I dream of a gunfight I fear real fear, if the nightmare becomes intense enough I may even be ejected from/die to 2nd state and find myself in 3rd -- waking-state, (which we're now experiencing).

As in 2nd, waking-state is a reality to one experiencing it. But also like 2nd-state, it is a subjective reality only. It is not objectively real. It is another level of dreaming, and the physical contradictions inherent in it do not intrude on the consciousness. They may be perceived only through physics and mathematics.

As I'm sure you've heard, the goal of many Eastern religions is Enlightenment -- the waking-up to states of consciousness/realities above ordinary 3rd-state. The ultimate goal is to achieve a subjective consciousness congruent with Objective Reality, where perception and physics are unified.

Your difficulty in grasping the unity of self and God is perfectly reasonable, Victor. You are not "slow." The fact is, it is not psychologically possible to perceive Unity in Waking-State. It can only be apprehended theoretically, mathematically. 3rd-state is all about diversity and difference. When I speak of Unity I am describing the realities and experiences of 5th, 6th and 7th-state worlds. In these states the unity of all things can be directly perceived. The unity of yourself with the substance of the Universe is obvious and self-verifying.

In third-state you can see and touch a teapot. "Teapot" is real. But in 7th-state teapots cannot exist. You are incapable of dreaming/perceiving "teapot," incapable of perceiving any discontinuity between self and the substance of the universe. You are incapable of perceiving diversity at all. You are beyond even God -- You are Brahman.

In 6th-state your Reality/World is as above, but you are still capable of peeking into 3rd-state, of showering forth individual sparks from your undifferentiated fire or droplets of spray from your homogenous ocean. You exist in and are equally conscious of all places, all Universes, all times, all beings, all things, simultaneously. You play at exploding into universes, coalescing into suns, evolving into conscious beings, peeking out through their eyes (incarnating), into their tiny, differentiated, time-bound little worlds. 6th-state is a dance, all play, all bliss. In 6th-state you are Ishvara -- God.

This is what Hindus are talking about when we talk about the unity of all things, of individual self vs Universal Self. It cannot be grasped or perceived in our current dream.

[Victor]

Thanks Seyorni. I am sure I will return to read this again. It will take another read for me to at least diagram it or simplify it in my head. You wouldn't have a diagram handy to further clarify would you?
So what happen to 1st state?

The Least
~Victor

[Seyorni]

1st state corresponds to slow-wave or Delta stage sleep. It's dreamless, unconscious. Not much to say about it.

Diagrams? I could probably scribble something on paper, but my profound computer illiteracy prevents me from translating it to cyberspace!

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

1st state corresponds to slow-wave or Delta stage sleep. It's dreamless, unconscious. Not much to say about it.

Diagrams? I could probably scribble something on paper, but my profound computer illiteracy prevents me from translating it to cyberspace!

Sounds like your dead in this stage.

~Victor