The Ethics of Selective Intervention (reject, creation, pray, bible)

[Wandered Off]

Oh, the fleeting memories of my youth... Football games would start with a prayer (before the nearest ACLU attorney sued) asking for injury protection for the players. Kids would pray for help on their algebra. People prayed to be spared from tornados and hurricanes, and they would be thankful to God that the prayers worked, even when somebody else was killed instead. Many a meal began with a request that God bless this food.

For me, though, the issue of such selective intervention – if it ever happens - raises more ethical questions than it answers. Would God bless your mashed potatoes while allowing someone else to get food poisoning? Would God help you avoid injury in an accident while not helping the family in the other car? Would God help you work on something as trivial as your patience while not helping children being raped and murdered in Darfur? For someone to believe that God helped him when someone no less deserving suffered seems a bit arrogant.

Of course I realize that there is no promise actual or implied that God should help everybody equally, or that God should always help those who need it. In fact, there is a great deal of merit and growth potential in letting us figure out our own way through trouble. So where’s the line?

Can you show me ANY explicable benevolent pattern in who gets intervention and who does not? From anecdotal observation, it doesn’t seem to be tied to behavior. How do you get on God’s “To be helped” list and avoid the “To be ignored” list or worse, the “To be smited” list? Do you have any influence? Is that what prayer is for? (OK, maybe a separate issue...)

One argument is that God doesn't wish to interfere with our free will, so that's why God doesn't intervene all the time. If free will is the priority that implies, then no intervention makes even more sense. Besides, many of the claimed interventions seem to have no impact I can see on free will, like claimed “protective” interventions for natural disasters or accidents. Indeed, if the protective intervention prevents an intentional act, then of course it does interfere with free will.

Rabbi Harold Kushner has a different explanation, at least if I understand correctly: God just isn't quite omnipotent enough to help everywhere. He does what He can, but there are limits. Many folks aren't willing to give up on omnipotence, but this could be an explanation.

For me, concluding that God does not intervene at all in day-to-day life aligns much better with my observations of reality, and it provides a rational way to avoid the prickly ethical questions that arise with the (IMO) human-invented concept of selective intervention.

Am I applying a particular set of ethics inappropriately?

[uumckk16]

I personally agree with you. "Selective intervention" - I like that phrasing. This is something that has been bothering me for a while. You put it into words wonderfully.

[Tagra]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

...For me, though, the issue of such selective intervention – if it ever happens - raises more ethical questions than it answers. Would God bless your mashed potatoes while allowing someone else to get food poisoning? Would God help you avoid injury in an accident while not helping the family in the other car? Would God help you work on something as trivial as your patience while not helping children being raped and murdered in Darfur? For someone to believe that God helped him when someone no less deserving suffered seems a bit arrogant...

There is also the argument that humans regected Gods rule (in the garden of Eden, eating the fruit and thus choosing for themselves what they feel is right.) Also the Devil chalanged Gods right to rule, and that humans only obey when it suits them. (see the bible bok of Job) So currently the world is in the power of the wicked one (see the bible book of 1John chapter 5, verse 19) A certan amount of time has to pass before these issues are resolved.

[recluse]

yes, but why would God have even set up those trees in the garden and let the serpent wander around there when he had complete companionship and the love of his creation, Adam? It appears that God set man up in the bible. This is a book that I personally cannot believe. I have heard others say that man rejected God. But as I see this bizarre story of the garden, it was God who rejected man by leaving him alone with his adversary supposedly and (God being all-knowing) KNEW that man would fail and catechlysmic events would follow.

[Wandered Off]

Hi Tagra, and thanks for offering your thoughts. As recluse points out, the whole A&E story has too many holes to be anything other than allegory, IMO, but it's a fine starting point.

Originally Posted by Tagra

A certan amount of time has to pass before these issues are resolved.

Why is this, if you believe in omnipotence?

Please help me understand your reasoning here. Are you making the case that selective intervention does not pose ethical concerns because of what the Devil did in the Garden story?

[PureX]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Am I applying a particular set of ethics inappropriately?

Mankind's need for "God's help" is reasonable, though not necessarily logical. We fear what we don't understand and control, and so we emplore the aid of whatever divine force we think DOES control the unknown, for it's help and protection. As a result, we feel a little less afraid, and hopefully we act a lttle more effectively in the face of our fear and the unknown.

I'm not sure what wisdom can be found in applying logic to this scenario. Perhaps there is great wisdom in that if we would apply logic to our fear of the unknown, we'd face it more squarely (honestly) and learn to live with it more effectively. On the other hand, that's pretty much the goal of seeking divine intervention, too, so what's really the difference?

I don't know.

I very rarely think or speak any kind of prayer of supplication. Doing so makes me feel silly and childish. I do, however, pray very often from gratitude. I don't even know who or what I'm praying to, and I don't care. Because the prayer is an expression of what I'm feeling, not an expression of the "truth" of God or anything. And what I'm feeling toward my life and existence much of the time is gratitude.

However, if I were frightened enough, I'm sure I would revert to prayers of supplication, foolish or not. Because my prayers are about what I'm feeling toward "God", not about the "truth of God's nature".

[Wandered Off]

Originally Posted by PureX

Because my prayers are about what I'm feeling toward "God", not about the "truth of God's nature".

Well stated, PureX. I like that perspective.

If, hypothetically, you got into one of those frightening situations and in the intensity of the moment asked for help - and then believed you received help - would that raise any ethical questions in your mind after the situation is long gone and you had time to reflect? Or would your "I don't know" take over at that point and make you question whether you really received help at all? I think mine would.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by Wandered Off

Well stated, PureX. I like that perspective.

If, hypothetically, you got into one of those frightening situations and in the intensity of the moment asked for help - and then believed you received help - would that raise any ethical questions in your mind after the situation is long gone and you had time to reflect? Or would your "I don't know" take over at that point and make you question whether you really received help at all? I think mine would.

Yup. I can say from experience that the latter is the case.

[HopefulNikki]

Originally Posted by Tagra

There is also the argument that humans regected Gods rule (in the garden of Eden, eating the fruit and thus choosing for themselves what they feel is right.) Also the Devil chalanged Gods right to rule, and that humans only obey when it suits them. (see the bible bok of Job) So currently the world is in the power of the wicked one (see the bible book of 1John chapter 5, verse 19) A certan amount of time has to pass before these issues are resolved.

How do we know that those stories from the Bible are true? I really don't see the point in quoting some religious text like it's truth unless there is evidence to back it up.