My God, Why Have Thou Forsaken Me ? (Jesus, moral, Earth)

[SoyLeche]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

How can a finite being suffer eternally?

Can't something be finite in one dimension and infinite in another??? A line can have a finite width but an infinite length, for example.

I don't know that that has anyting to do with this though

[PetShopBoy88]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Has no one thought to point out that there are differing versions of the last words of Jesus?

Yes, that was pointed out by (I think) Katzpur earlier in this thread.

[joeboonda]

Because God is infinitely Holy, even the smallest sin is infinitely offensive to Him. As a result an infinite payment must be made for the sins of each and every person. Now there are two ways by which an infinite payment can be offered: a finite person could suffer God's wrath for an infinite period of time, or an infinite person sould suffer God's wrath for a finite period of time. Both yield an infinte payment for sin.
1. Man, who is finite, would therefore have to suffer God's wrath for infinity if he were to pay for his own sins. That is why hell is etenal.
2. Jesus Christ, the infinte God in human form would only have to suffer God's wrath a finite amount of time to provide an infinte payment for sin. Since He is God, the suffering He endured on the cross was a sacrifice of infinite value. Therefore, His death made available the infinite payment necessary to pay for the sins of all men throughout all ages.

An infinite payment must be made for every man's sins. God allows each person to decide which payment plan he preferss...Jesus Christ, or eternity in Hell. (from The Gospel by Ron Shea, p. 12)
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As to the question about

how can a finnite being can suffer eternally?,

, I believe the scripture indicates that eternal, or everlasting punishment is forever. An example, in Revelation, the Beast (Antichrist) and the False Prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire, 1,000 years later Satan is, too, and it says where the Beast and the False Prophet ARE, and they are tormented night and day, forever and ever...

1. Revelation 19:20
   And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
   Revelation 20:10
   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
2. Revelation 21:8
   But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
3. Revelation 20:14
   Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
   If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
4. Matthew 25:46
   And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
5. Matthew 25:41
   Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
   
6. We are all going to spend eternity somewhere, I do not believe in the annihilation of the wicked. The rich man who went to hell is still there along with all the others, and they will face the final White Throne Judgement and be cast into the lake of fire. Note that Lazarus could remember his life, he was in torment in the flame, he was thirsty...and he was alive, in what form of body we do not know, but it will last forever. Jesus also said that it would be more tolerable at the judgement for some than others, signifying different levels of punishment, just as there will be different levels of rank, privelege, and reward for believers in eternity.
   
   
   

[autonomous1one1]

Originally Posted by michel

.......
I must admit that this last moment for Jesus is one that I cannot understand fully; is there some authoritative literature to explain it to someone like me ?

Greetings Michel. Although it does not come from any 'authoritative literature' source that I know of, I wish to offer a different perspective on the last words. In the view of many, Jesus as Christ was fully human and fully God, as is my view. This is a human in whom union with God is realized; God-human; what I term the New Being for further discussion. The New Being knows the finite identity of a human and the infinite identity of God simultaneously and can communicate from either perspective. Jesus as the New Being was transparent to God through the Being that he was.

Assuming the words 'My God, My God, why have you forsaken me' were said on the cross, they are remarkable in two respects. First, they come from the human perspective of the New Being and prove the fully human identity. This, to me, is extremely important because it means the New Being is applicable for us humans also. Second, the words are remarkable because they show Jesus unity with God at the end, under conditions of severe despair, whether they be quotes from a psalm or chosen words to God.

At least my two points show that I can count in offering my two cents.
a1

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by jewscout

His last words should have been, "Always look on the bright side of life.."

A truly great movie that every christian should watch...maybe help with their enlightenment...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1loyjm4SOa0