My God, Why Have Thou Forsaken Me ? (Jesus, moral, Earth)

[angellous_evangellous]

Apparently, we're danged if we do...

If this was his last statement, It makes a big argument for the basis of Christian scriptures and disproves Jesus to be what the bible claims. It shows that Christ was not in on the whole sacrifice for mankind story or else such a question would be ludicrous.

And danged if we don't...

If it wasn't his last statement. Then it is one more fallacy from the bible. Making it even less accurate or believable. Kind of like painting yourself into a corner.

Fortunately, I have not seen anyone put forth such a hopelessly thoughtless interpretation of this particular passage.

[angellous_evangellous]

Has no one thought to point out that there are differing versions of the last words of Jesus?

[michel]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Has no one thought to point out that there are differing versions of the last words of Jesus?

As in:- http://singoafrica.blogspot.com/2006...-of-jesus.html ?
The Last Words of Jesus



The following are the last seven words (phrases) that Jesus said during his Crucifixion:

Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do (Luke 23:24)
Woman, behold your son...Behold your mother! (John 19:26-27)
I thirst (John 19:28).
This day you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43)
My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me? (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34)
It is finished (John 19:30)
Father, into Your hands, I commend My spirit (Luke 23:46)

I must admit that this last moment for Jesus is one that I cannot understand fully; is there some authoritative literature to explain it to someone like me ?

[SoyLeche]

From James E. Talmage's "Jesus the Christ":

At the ninth hour, or about three in the afternoon, a loud voice, surpassing the most anguished cry of physical suffering issued from the central cross, rending the dreadful darknes. It was the voice of the Christ: "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, My God, why has thou forsaken me?" What mind of man can fatom the significance of that awful cry? It seems, that in addition to the fearful suffering incident to crucifixtion, the agony of Gethsemane had recurred, intensified beyond human power to endure. In that bitterest hour the dying Christ was alone, alone in most terrible reality. That the supreme sacrifice of the Son might be consummated in all its fulness, the Father seems to have withdrawn the support of His immediate Presence, leaving the Savior of men the glory of complete victory over the forces of sin and death.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by michel

As in:- http://singoafrica.blogspot.com/2006...-of-jesus.html ?
The Last Words of Jesus



The following are the last seven words (phrases) that Jesus said during his Crucifixion:

Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do (Luke 23:24)
Woman, behold your son...Behold your mother! (John 19:26-27)
I thirst (John 19:28).
This day you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43)
My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me? (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34)
It is finished (John 19:30)
Father, into Your hands, I commend My spirit (Luke 23:46)

I must admit that this last moment for Jesus is one that I cannot understand fully; is there some authoritative literature to explain it to someone like me ?

That depends on how you define "authoritative." Very much has been written on it... I will keep an eye out for this when I am in the library this week and I'll direct you to what I think is the best.

My interpretative method is simply this:

The Gospels were written to a specific faith community - the earliest Christian churches. The actions and teachings of Jesus outside of Q (the sayings that are shared by Matt, Mark, and Luke) were adapted from the memories of the apostles or fabricated to address specific needs in that community.

So each different last saying was used by the Chrisitan bishop of a certain community to address a need - be it to strengthen the position of the church (eg, the Johannine community entrusted with the protection of the mother of Jesus), a theological lesson that matches the confession of the community (the sayings in Luke), or correct theological heresies that may have been introduced by foreign influence (like the Gnostics/Marcionites).

[michel]

I suddenly remembered that I had seen a thread on this before; I have merged it.....

[angellous_evangellous]

Matthew 27:46, "'ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHITHANI?' that is, `MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAST THOU FORSAKEN ME?'" In verse 50 we are told that Jesus cried out again and died. We are not told what was said or if it was merely a cry of pain.

Mark 15:34, "'ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHANI?' which is translated, `My God, My God, Why Hast Thou Forsaken Me?'" In verse 37 we are told the same thing as above in verse 50.

Luke 23: 46, "And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, `FATHER, INTO THY HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT.' And having said this, He breathed His last."

John 19: 30, "When Jesus therefore had received sour wine, He said, `It is finished!' And He bowed His head, and gave up His spirit.

It can be noted here that of the four last words of Jesus recorded above, there are three contradictory versions. Matthew and Mark are in somewhat agreement, although Matthew uses the word ELI and Mark ELOI; since Jesus' last words were in a single language, it appears suspicious that two different words are used. Luke creates more problems because he records different last words for Jesus. And Luke (or whoever wrote the gospel that goes by that name – none of the gospel writers identified themselves in their works) clearly states in the first four verses of his gospel to be writing an accurate account because he does not like the other accounts already written. If he is writing an accurate account, than any variation from his account is by definition in error.

There is no difference between ELI and ELOI. EL is God and I or OI is the first person possessive... "My God." It's exactly the same thing, just alternative spelling.