My God, Why Have Thou Forsaken Me ? (Jesus, moral, Earth)

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

You start with an insult? Why invite me here just to belittle me? Thanks anyway.

It wasn't meant as an insult Scuba. The way you were talking on the other thread about this topic I thought you had something that supported your statement.

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Only by those wishing to delude themselves. This is THE most powerful statement in all the scriptures. It's why it was put there in the original tongue.

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by SoyLeche

I have a feeling it isn't the first offense...

I have to agree with you Soy...I think one of the few things that offend me, are those that are easily offended...The irony of it all..

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by PetShopBoy88

Jesus had to die as a man. Like Adam the first man fell by sinning and brought death to the world, Jesus conquered death and sin by living perfectly and dying as a man. One condition of being a man is that we are seperated from God. For Christ to die as a man, he had to die as a man, severred from God's presence.

All this aside, it gives no explanation for the supposed last statement of Jesus...

[lunamoth]

Jesus was fully human as well as fully God. It seems pretty normal to me that in the suffering of death one would cry out to one's father even as experiencing sheer despair. That aside, that is the first line of Psalm 22, the Pslam which Christians take to describe the suffering of Jesus and His ultimate victory over death. So, this line would bring to mind the whole Psalm, including it's victorious end. On the cross, things looked bad, very bad. But that was not the end.



1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from the words of my groaning?
2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, and am not silent.
3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the praise of Israel. [a]
4 In you our fathers put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 They cried to you and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not disappointed.
6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by men and despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads:
8 "He trusts in the LORD;
let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him."
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you
even at my mother's breast.
10 From birth I was cast upon you;
from my mother's womb you have been my God.
11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.
12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions tearing their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted away within me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me [b] in the dust of death.
16 Dogs have surrounded me;
a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced [c] my hands and my feet.
17 I can count all my bones;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.
19 But you, O LORD, be not far off;
O my Strength, come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver my life from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save [d] me from the horns of the wild oxen.
22 I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the congregation I will praise you.
23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or disdained
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.
25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you [e] will I fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
they who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!
27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations. 29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive. 30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord. 31 They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by XAAX

Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have thou forsaken me?" NIV

In anyone’s opinion, Why was this the last thing Jesus supposedly said?

I think that, according to Matthew and Mark, those were his last words. In Luke, however, it appears as if the last thing He said was, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." In terms of why He thought His Father had forsaken Him, I am not really sure. One LDS Apostle, M. Russell Ballard, drew an interesting comparison between God's sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and Abraham's experience in being commanded to sacrifice Isaac but then being told at the last moment that he could spare his life. I'm not really sure what prompted your question (i.e. whether you wondered why it was the last thing He may have said or whether you wondered why He said it at all) but here's one perspective:

“Our Father in Heaven went through all that and more for in his case the hand was not stayed. He loved his Son, Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, and yet he allowed [Him] to descend from His place of glory and honor, where millions did Him homage, down to the earth, a condescension that is not within the power of man to conceive. He came to receive the insult, the abuse, and the crown of thorns. God heard the cry of His Son in that moment of great grief and agony in the garden when, it is said, the pores of his body opened and drops of blood stood upon him, and he cried out: ‘Father, if Thou be willing remove his cup from me.’

I ask you, what father and mother could stand by and listen to the cry of their [child] in distress, and not render aid and assistance? But in the case of our Father, the knife was not stayed, but it fell, and the life’s blood of His beloved Son went out. [The] Father looked on with great grief and agony over His Beloved Son, until there seems to have come a moment when even our Savior cried out in despair: My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?’

In that hour I think I can see our dear Father behind the veil looking upon these dying struggles until even He could not endure it any longer, and like the mother who bids farewell to her dying child, has to be taken out of the room, so as not to look upon the last struggles, so He bowed His head, and hid in some part of His universe, He great heart almost breaking for the love that He had for His Son.”

[PetShopBoy88]

Originally Posted by XAAX

All this aside, it gives no explanation for the supposed last statement of Jesus...

Well, then, apparantly I didn't understand the question. I thought you meant why did God forsake Jesus (with my answer being, Jesus had to die fully as a man, seperated from God) but either I didn't understand your question or I didn't do a good job explaining myself.

[XAAX]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I think that, according to Matthew and Mark, those were his last words. In Luke, however, it appears as if the last thing He said was, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit." In terms of why He thought His Father had forsaken Him, I am not really sure. One LDS Apostle, M. Russell Ballard, drew an interesting comparison between God's sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and Abraham's experience in being commanded to sacrifice Isaac but then being told at the last moment that he could spare his life. I'm not really sure what prompted your question (i.e. whether you wondered why it was the last thing He may have said or whether you wondered why He said it at all) but here's one perspective:

Leave it to you Kat, I had forgotten that...Actually made me get my BIG(1 1/2 ft by 5 inches) bible out and look it up...Its the only one I have left, only due to the fact that it belonged to a close loved one that died. Anyway, you are correct. I wonder which one of the stories is correct. I really don't want to start researching the bible again... ...

Why is there a difference in your opinion?

[yuvgotmel]

Originally Posted by PetShopBoy88

Well, then, apparantly I didn't understand the question. I thought you meant why did God forsake Jesus (with my answer being, Jesus had to die fully as a man, seperated from God) but either I didn't understand your question or I didn't do a good job explaining myself.

Maybe you should check out this thread. It's long but it refers to what Xaax was saying.

Does all of Christianity operate under a shared delusion?

[PetShopBoy88]

Originally Posted by yuvgotmel

Maybe you should check out this thread. It's long but it refers to what Xaax was saying.

Does all of Christianity operate under a shared delusion?

Ah, thanks for helping me contextualise the thread.

[NoahideHiker]

Originally Posted by XAAX

Matthew 27:46 About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"—which means, "My God, my God, why have thou forsaken me?" NIV

In anyone’s opinion, Why was this the last thing Jesus supposedly said?

It is customary for a Jew to recite Tehillim (Psalms) when one is in danger or distress. He was reciting Tehillim 22 where King David was crying out to G-d day and night and even though G-d did not save him at the time he recognized His holiness.