Deism discussion (rejecting, Deists, beliefs, church, dogma)

[Faust]

(How do you "fit the category of Deist"?) Quoted from Deut's previous post. (Sorry Deut, best I can do until I figure quote mech. out.)
Because I believe that everything is interconnected, some would call that interconnectedness "God" based on their subjective reasoning. And yes I mean "subjective". Do you think that debate could exist if reasoning were not subjective? That is an oxymoron. If reason were not subjective we would not have the diversity of beliefs on this forum that we do. Everyone would believe pretty much the same thing.

[Seyorni]

Why do deists feel the need to posit a First Cause? Can't the universe just be? Why do we need intentionality?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

Why do deists feel the need to posit a First Cause? Can't the universe just be? Why do we need intentionality?

And, therefore, why do you need deity?

[Davidium]

Why do deists feel the need to posit a First Cause? Can't the universe just be? Why do we need intentionality?

Some do posit a first cause, some do not. In fact, one of the largest movements in Modern Deistic Thought, Panendeism, does not posit a first cause. This view is gaining larger acceptance.

For an excellent essay on Integral Panendeism, I recommend this article by Travis Clementsmith. http://dynamicdeism.org/library/panendeisticmodel.htm

Or actually, this is probably a better introduction... http://dynamicdeism.org/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10

Some Deists do propose a "prime mover"... and the reasoning behind this view varies. For me, it is not about a first cause for the universe, but rather that I see the natural laws as being "crafted"... I think they function too well for Chaos to have created them. Or at least this has been my view until recently... I believe I am in the process of accepting more of a panendeistic view of a continually existing universe.

Just have not pondered enough to commit yet.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Seyorni)
Why do deists feel the need to posit a First Cause? Can't the universe just be? Why do we need intentionality?
And, therefore, why do you need deity?

This is rather flippant, and I probably should not respond... but I shall anyway. I do not believe in a "Deity" as you probably mean it, or as society generally conceives it. I simply believe that there is a "higher universal perspective" beyond our mere human understanding. Our universe simply does appear to me to make sense without it. I do not think that a purposeless universe makes sense. There is too much involved for it just to exist for no reason.

If you assume, then that such a reason exists, then it is also a safe assumption that something can percieve of that Universal purpose. This is the higher perspective that I tend to refer to as God for conveninece.

I do not believe in a God which interferes in the universe he created... Only that he perceives what occurs here, and perceives why all is here.

Your answer is flippant because it is off target. It does not matter whether humanity "needs" a Deity or not. It does not even matter if the Deity "needs" man or not. I do not personally "need" black holes.... I have never seen a black hole. Science says it is impossible to "see" a black hole. But our universe only makes sense if there are black holes.

I do not need a Deity. But just becasue I do not need one does not mean that one does not exist.

Reason and Respect,

David Pyle

[Seyorni]

You state the universe does not appear to "make sense" without a "higher universal perspective." Why does the universe need to have a purpose to "make sense?'' Why does it need to fit comfortably into your world-view?" Why is the thought of a blind watchmaker unsettling?

Psychic comfort is no evidence of truth. Relativity theory flies in the face of commonsense,and Quantam mechanics is a psychotic's dream.

What evidence is there to purpose in the universe?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Davidium

I do not think that a purposeless universe makes sense. There is too much involved for it just to exist for no reason.

In other words, it transcends your comprehension, therefore it must "mean" something? See Seyorni's fine comments.

Originally Posted by Davidium

I do not personally "need" black holes

Of course you do.

Originally Posted by Davidium

I have never seen a black hole. ... But our universe only makes sense if there are black holes.

So, you [personally] "need" deity to make your universe 'make sense'.

[Mr Spinkles]

***MOD POST***

Folks, this is a forum for discussing and learning about Deism. Please do not give in to the temptation to debate in this non-debate forum.

I will start a new thread in the debate forum called "What's the Point of Deism?" for anyone interested.

Thanks.

[Faust]

Thanks for the reminder Mr. Sprinkles.
I wouldn't want to miss the opportunity to hear from the Deists on our forum.

[scitsofreaky]

I believe in a God because I just do. This seems strange, even as I type it, but it is the truth (see my signature). I look up at the sky and wonder how what seems to be some sort of order could come to be from chaos. I do not really concern myself with the purpose of the universe. If it has a purpose, I probably wouldn't understand it anyway. So, I am trying to find meaning in my own life.
Deism gives me a way to tell people what I believe, it doesn't dictate what I believe. I am young, and I realize that my beliefs will probably change as I gain new experiences and learn more about the world and myself, and deism has allowed me to do so thus far.