Deism discussion (rejecting, Deists, beliefs, church, dogma)

[Faust]

LOL!
Yes I agree with you Deut. but I am not applying all these terms to myself. I believe it goes back to Davidium's subjective view of reason. It seems to me that where I fall on the belief spectrum is measured differently by individuals based on their personal experience.
But what matters to me is my interpretation of existence.

[Faust]

When I refer to myself as atheist, I do so because I do not believe in a God or gods. Anthropomorphic or not. However because I believe that all things are interconnected I also fit in the category of UU and Deist ect...
You see, it sounds a little different when you include the entire text of the quote rather than editing it. When you edit out part of any text you can change the entire meaning of the message, as I am sure anyone on a religious forum is aware! lol!

[Jayhawker Soule]

Leaving aside oxymoronic constructs like subjective reason (which you correctly assign to Davidium's world view), what matters to me is your "interpretation of existence" as well: you either view it as teleological or not. Can you suggest a meaningful distinction between 'deism' and 'theism'?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Originally Posted by Faust

You see, it sounds a little different when you include the entire text of the quote rather than editing it.

No, I honestly do not see.

[Faust]

Leaving aside oxymoronic constructs like subjective reason (which you correctly assign to Davidium's world view), what matters to me is your "interpretation of existence" as well: you either view it as teleological or not. Can you suggest a meaningful distinction between 'deism' and 'theism'?
Sorry Deut., I've obviously struck the wrong cord with you tonight. I'm sorry if I've been unable to make myself clear. Let me try again without offending if I can.
If I am exposed to a flame and I posses sight I know that it provides light. If however I am sightless I can not make this logical conclusion. If I am lead to stick my finger into the flame, I find out that it can cause severe pain, however if I do not stick my finger into the flame I may perceive that it produces heat but am unaware of it's potential to burn me.
That is subjective reasoning, based on perception and reasoning. I do not find it oxymoronic.
As far as my interpretation of existence goes, there is no god or gods. We are the result of what some would call chaos theory.
I was simply trying to make the point that "others" place me in categories based on their personal perceptions and experiences.
And yes, I too have a problem separating deism from theism, thats why I decided to engage in this thread. I thought I might learn a little more about deism myself.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Faust, it would help a bit if you would use the quoting mechanism provided.

Originally Posted by Faust

Sorry Deut., I've obviously struck the wrong cord with you tonight. I'm sorry if I've been unable to make myself clear. Let me try again without offending if I can.

You are mistaken. I do not feel at all offended, and I am not at all clear why you might think such a thing - much less why you would think it "obvious".

Originally Posted by Faust

That is subjective reasoning, based on perception and reasoning. I do not find it oxymoronic.

Reasoning based on reasoning is probably a good thing. Subjective reasoning is, in my opinion, an oxymoron.

[Faust]

Well I do agree with you that it would help to use the quoting thingy but I'm new to computers and have been unable to figure that out yet.
However, reasoning is influenced by experience. Experience differs from person to person.
Therefore it is "primarily" subjective. Objective reasoning would be reasoning that is not influenced by personal experience. No matter how hard we try, even in a laboratory setting, we can not be totally objective. Thats why blind and double blind tests are used to gather information. We have to do the best we can to disengage our personal prejudices from the investigative process.

[Faust]

Wow, This thread was supposed to be about Deism. I seem to have lead myself and Deut. off coarse here. Sorry.
Faust

[Jayhawker Soule]

How do you "fit the category of Deist"?

[Davidium]

Why would something that is based on "human reason" [sic!] be "by necessity different for each and every individual"?

Because no two humans operating the tool of Reason have the exact same set of knowledge and experiences for that Reason to operate upon. No one human being can have a perfect understanding of even the smallest aspect of our universe.... and we each experience different things in our lives. As such, the conclusions reached by our use of the tool of Reason will be different. We have different starting points.

As each of us has a different set of knowledge and experiences to draw upon, then the products of our Reason will be different.

Using a hammer, nails, some wood.... You might make a shelf and I might make a birdhouse... as each of us is called to by our experience and knowledge. But both of us are building.

To expect others to use the tool of Reason exactly as you to come to the same conclusions as you would require them to have identical knowledge and life experiences to you. I doubt that you have ever met anyone who fit this bill...

Reason and Respect,

David Pyle