France reject the EU Constitution (confess, Roman, easter)

[michel]

With most votes counted, 55% No votes to the EU Constitution in France!!!!!
Some 'No' Voters voted as such because of French Jobs going to the French colonies, and to Punish Chirac for not having 'delivered' since he was elected in against 'Le Pen' !!!

Holland will vote No too, with luck..................

[Mr Spinkles]

Are you against the new EU Constitution, michel? If so, why? I'm interested in hearing some opinions on this.

[Shadow Wolf]

Could you please explain what the EU constitution is about, that or post a link?

[Lady Crimson]

Michel, if Holland says no too and other countries will do the same...well, it's bad for my country and Bulgaria cause they probably won't become EU contries. I understand France because they are affraid that eastern europeans will come to their country and get their jobs for smaller paychecks and such things...but as I said before it's really, really bad for my country. Prices are going to fly skyhigh and the unemplyement rate is going to grow. This is not good seeing that romanian paychecks are a couple of hundreds of dollars a month and the prices (big even now) will double or triple.

[Fluffy]

Michel, if Holland says no too and other countries will do the same...well, it's bad for my country and Bulgaria cause they probably won't become EU contries. I understand France because they are affraid that eastern europeans will come to their country and get their jobs for smaller paychecks and such things...but as I said before it's really, really bad for my country. Prices are going to fly skyhigh and the unemplyement rate is going to grow. This is not good seeing that romanian paychecks are a couple of hundreds of dollars a month and the prices (big even now) will double or triple.

I promise I'll keep my fingers crossed because I can't see anything wrong with expanding the EU and France is taking a very backward and potentially self serving view in my opinion. But then again I support the opening up of the borders so....

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Lady Crimson

Michel, if Holland says no too and other countries will do the same...well, it's bad for my country and Bulgaria cause they probably won't become EU contries. I understand France because they are affraid that eastern europeans will come to their country and get their jobs for smaller paychecks and such things...but as I said before it's really, really bad for my country. Prices are going to fly skyhigh and the unemplyement rate is going to grow. This is not good seeing that romanian paychecks are a couple of hundreds of dollars a month and the prices (big even now) will double or triple.

Actually, that's almost certainly not true. The Romanian and Bulgarian accession treaties have already been signed and there is no provision for the EU to go back on them, only to delay them by a year. Unless the EU completely implodes, which is unlikely, the chances are Romania and Bulgaria will join as planned and without a delay. Most probably all that will happen is that this constitution will rejected and they'll start negotiating for a different one.

Personally, if I'd been given the chance I'd have rejected this constitution also, though it looks like we won't get the opportunity here in the UK now. I'm actually skeptical about the whole EU thing anyway, and particularly about the ex-communist countries joining. I feel countries like Romania (which, as you know, is my adoptive homeland which I love) are going to suffer more than benefit from the EU, but I can understand why the grass looks greener in the west - just so long as you know that it really isn't. We just have different kinds of problems.

James

[Lady Crimson]

Initially, things will get worse (with all the prices booming) but, in time, they will get better. Investors are going to come and that means more places to work in, maybe some improvement in the areas of education and health. This country was killed by people whose motto, I'm ashamed to say, was: 'We only work, we do not think'. Some many young and intelligent people were murdered, but I won't get into that now.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Lady Crimson

Initially, things will get worse (with all the prices booming) but, in time, they will get better. Investors are going to come and that means more places to work in, maybe some improvement in the areas of education and health. This country was killed by people whose motto, I'm ashamed to say, was: 'We only work, we do not think'. Some many young and intelligent people were murdered, but I won't get into that now.

Yeah, tell me about the communist era Romanian 'work ethic'! I used to work in a neuropsychiatric children's hospital (so-called - it was a joke) in Siret. The young people were fine - hard working, really wanted to help the kids etc. Some of the older ones who'd worked there under Ceausescu, though, just sat and clock-watched. One time I had a blazing row with one of them because she tied a kid down rather than do anything constructive when the kid was 'naughty'.

The point is, though, that all that has been changing in Romania without the EU. I first went to Romania in the Ceausescu era then again in 1995 and I've been going back frequently ever since. The changes have been quite amazing (not to mention the inflation!). From sugar shortages and bread queues to supermarkets in less than 10 years seems quite impressive to me. The EU is likely to hurt Romania economically in the short term and culturally in the longer term. I really don't think the whole project is in anyone's interests other than the bureaucrats in Brussels.

James

[michel]

Sorry Guys, I've a confession to make - I started this thread, and never noticed any replies; I thought it had 'died a natural'.

For those interested in what the EU Consitution stands for, I can give you this link:-
http://europa.eu.int/constitution/futurum/index_en.htm , which will undoubtedly be full of buaerucratic & legalistisc speak' - have fun!

The Netherlands have rejected the Constitution, as announced today on British news ; depending on where you are in the world, your news will tell you when you wake up...

The basic premise, as far as I am concerned, is the fact that no one quite KNOWS the implications.

We are a democracy (huh?) - and France voted against, because all the immigrants who went to France from Algiers, Morocco, and othe ex French-Empire countries, found that, no sooner had they arrived in France, they found that French firms were out-sourcing work to poorer countries. Added to the fact that the French, in their last election had to Vote for either Chirac or Le Pen, Chirac was at least not a National Front racist, as Le Pen is.

That does not mean that the whole EU comes grinding to a halt; it merely means that we will return to the state of nothing but a Trade free Europe - which is expanding everyday.

Lady Crimson, I cannot see the non acceptance of rthe EU constitution having a negative effect on you - I hope I am right. The existant arrangements to the countries in the EU should prove to your advantage as it is; you will gain a lot from being part of Europe (That's the theory). The old 'constitution will have to stand for a while.

One of the most complex, and I think scary (to us here) aspects, is the inclusion of Turkey in th EU; Frontier guarding is minimal - the incidence of illegal immigrants (Who are alredy pouring into Europe) will be much greater.

Britain already has a problem with the EU as to it's contribution to Europe (Financially); Margaret thatcher negotiated a deal way back when, which is now giving us a £3 000 000 ayear rebate - Europe wants to see that cut to much less.

With regard to the immigation problem, compare the size of Britain to that of, say Spain and France; we already have a population of 60 000 000; yet we expected to take more and more immigrants each year. The system is unfairly balanced, since the French had sited their immigrant camp right next to the entrance to the Eurotunnel - Need I say more?

Lady Crimson, I know that the teething problems are bad, on Joining, but I assure you, the longerterm outlook willbe much brighter!