I can't believe. (moral, hell, bible, point of view, faith)

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Yes Man

I'm not sure where to put this but I'll just put it here.

I was talking with a friend lately and our subject of conversation managed to wander into religion. Me and her are both non-religious and I was saying how unfair some religions (or religious people) are to people like me. I simply can't place faith in a higher power because I have no way of being entirely sure that there is a god, divine entity, whatever. Yet certain religions are fit to condemn me to a hell because of this. I guess I'm ranting but I just wanted to hear some input.

"Entirely sure"? There's no way to be entirely sure about anything. Perhaps you've set the bar too high. Atheists can't be entirely sure, nor can believers, nor can agnostics for that matter. Whatever your worldview, it will always stop short of 100% certainty.

However, you can be sure enough to make a decision even if you're not sure enough right now. But it will take letting go of an unreasonable standard of belief.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by uss_bigd

Is there a God?

- What is more complex a video camera or you? a video camera actally copied the function fo your eye. but since you also have a microphone( vocal chords) it makes ou more complex.

so let me ask you, can you imagine a playstation appearing out of thin air without anybody creating it? ot you actually believe intelligent people studied the technology, planned, implemented plans and made contingincies.

if so, why wouldn't you believe that someone created a complex human being, so much more his complex environemnt.

This type of argument from complexity is illogical at best and intellectually dishonest at worst. It asks you to assume a maker for everything complex, and conveniently stops short of assuming a maker for the most complex thing of all.

Nobody who believes in evolution believes that any complex creature ever appeared out of thin air. IMO, the only people who believe anything close to that are those who believe that a God complex enough to create the universe from nothing could exist without a creator of His own.

Originally Posted by texan1

I don't think the original post is asking for proof of God, but rather input on why he is treated unfairly by religious people.

I think it's because people wrongly assume you cannot have a moral center if you aren't religious. Maybe if you'd stop killing puppies Yes Man, they would be more open minded about you.

For many people, moral teaching and religious teaching have been given to them wrapped together for their entire lives. I think that if you only ever view morality through the lens of religion, it's hard for you to see it when that lens is removed.

[Yes Man]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

"Entirely sure"? There's no way to be entirely sure about anything.

Precisely.

[Hema]

I believe in Karma Yoga and so by doing good actions, one is rewarded now and in the hereafter, whether you believe in God or not. Love is most important. There are people who believe in God but they have hatred - that to me is hypocritical.

[Draka]

Yes Man, you won't get any condemnation from me or people who believe as I do. Though, I have gotten the same types of condemnations as you from the same types of people. People like that tend to have themselves on a pedestal as they have been told over and over that that is where they are by "leaders" in their faith. They are not happy unless they point out that fact to others by denigrating them. It boils down to a self-indulgent ego trip. That is all it is. All one can really do, short of smacking the stupid out of them, is to pity them.

[Yes Man]

Originally Posted by texan1

Maybe if you'd stop killing puppies Yes Man, they would be more open minded about you.

SO much fun though.

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by Yes Man

Precisely.

Yeah, but that's no excuse for radical skepticism (an epistemological form of cowardice).

[Father Heathen]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

Yeah, but that's no excuse for radical skepticism (an epistemological form of cowardice).

"Radical"? yeah, I guess using reason and logic is kind of fringe these days.

[GadFly]

Originally Posted by Yes Man

I'm not sure where to put this but I'll just put it here.

I was talking with a friend lately and our subject of conversation managed to wander into religion. Me and her are both non-religious and I was saying how unfair some religions (or religious people) are to people like me. I simply can't place faith in a higher power because I have no way of being entirely sure that there is a god, divine entity, whatever. Yet certain religions are fit to condemn me to a hell because of this. I guess I'm ranting but I just wanted to hear some input.

For me to believe I had to unlearn what I thought I knew. With everything that was taught me from youth up through adulthood, my information decreased, if that makes sense.
I finally realized that everything that "was" did not have to be 100% known and that it did not require a lot of knowing to make me happy. For example, my children and my wife, I love them. Even if I can't prove it to anybody, I don't care. I believe it enough to satisfy me.
Don't be reluctant to believe in something if it makes sense to you. Don't let anybody talk you into missing something good in life because they don't understand it. I believe we all were made for understanding. Hang around here long enough and you'll probably know everything. The main thing is to stay cool. It will happen and if not it will not make a differenc.