Internal Repentance (Jesus, moral, prophet, marriage, moral)

[RedRain]

Originally Posted by Dunemeister

It's also worth noting that internal repentance is meaningless without outward repentance. As the book of James puts it, "I'll show you my faith by my deeds."

And, in my opinion the opposite is almost as true, that outward repentance is meaningless without internal repentance. As Emanuel Swedenborg puts it:

Man can indeed repent of evils that he has done in body, and still think and will evil; but this is like cutting off the trunk of a bad tree, and leaving its root in the ground, from which the same bad tree grows up again, and spreads forth its branches. But it is different when the root also is torn up; and this is done in man when he examines the intentions of his will, and puts away his evils by repentance. ~ True Christian Religion

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by RedRain

And, in my opinion the opposite is almost as true, that outward repentance is meaningless without internal repentance. As Emanuel Swedenborg puts it:

Sure, I can buy that, at least to a point. However, I'd also say that performing outward repentance can generate internal repentance. There was a time when, in the context of missionary training (I was being trained) I took it upon myself to give my trainer a hard time about what I considered to be his weak and shallow theology. I asked tough questions he couldn't answer, and I generally tried to humiliate him in public. One of my friends approached me later, and pointed out my sin. I didn't really think at the time that I had done anything wrong, but for the sake of appearances, I agreed to apologize to him and to all the people of the class. Later, after the apologies, I continued to reflect, and soon I was weeping with regret over my sin. God used my external repentance to generate an inner repentance. Perhaps my repentance wasn't "complete" until the inner business had been done. But the outer repentance was directly responsible for generating it.

Perhaps there's no point of disagreement between us on this point, eh?

[RedRain]

I just think sometimes people focus on desisting from the external action too much for the sake of their reputation. In my opinion, not acting out on a sin because it will make you look bad doesn't really change you. You have to stop doing it because you believe it to be wrong. I think too much these days people are changed on the outside because of what people think of them rather than because they are sinning against God.

Now, you are right, that at first someone may stop from doing something because it makes them look bad and then later recognize that what they were doing was actually wrong, but unless they realize this later, their motions are hollow.

[Scarlett Wampus]

Originally Posted by RedRain

I agree that you can do harm with too much examination and repression. But to steadily try to understand what is going on inside of yourself and to be willing to accept that a lot of it is not necessarily good or healthy or life-giving and, especially looking to a higher power for assistance in this process, it's just amazing what can happen.

Things that weren't fun before become fun. People you have looked down on start not to look as bad. The desires we have for just a little more fame or respect or glory or money start to fade, slowly and we can see peace. we can see love

From this response and others you posted in the thread it seems to me you are on a good path.

I'd like to know more about internal repentance as you see it / practice it. Do you have any pointers?

[zenzero]

Friend RedRain,

Things that weren't fun before become fun. People you have looked down on start not to look as bad. The desires we have for just a little more fame or respect or glory or money start to fade, slowly and we can see peace. we can see love

This is merging. The deeper we go we rewalise we are not what we appear as or we think as. In fact there is no * I *. It is * WE * .
Yes, surely a Way to go.
Love & rgds

[Dunemeister]

Originally Posted by zenzero

Friend RedRain,

This is merging. The deeper we go we rewalise we are not what we appear as or we think as. In fact there is no * I *. It is * WE * .
Yes, surely a Way to go.
Love & rgds

"We" implies "I".

[RedRain]

Originally Posted by Scarlett Wampus

From this response and others you posted in the thread it seems to me you are on a good path.

I'd like to know more about internal repentance as you see it / practice it. Do you have any pointers?

I am strongly influenced by the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. It is a little complicated.

I believe that Jesus is the one God of heaven and earth and in this I look to Him through all of my internal struggles. I think it is essential to look to a higher consciousness than your own who you believe in completely, who will guide you, who you trust and admire.

Your Higher Power, Your God will give you strength, that you could never have of yourself, to face the greatest of trials.

He also defines what it is that I am seeking. He is the one above it all, above the desires that lead to nowhere, He is the one who has true love and what I seek is true love. I don't seek a love that is dependent on whether someone loves me in return or a love that is dependent on receiving what I want from someone. I seek a love that raises people to the same quality of God that raises me and so we can all be raised, together, and not be hurt anymore by our meaningless thirsts and endeavors.

[idea]

I think it is both internal and external. It is a new way of seeing what is around you. If you do not look outside of yourself, you will miss half of the experience...

Repentance removes the blame blanket. When you blame others for everything that happens, you cannot really see them, all you see is the blame that you heap on them. When you are able to take responsibility for your own faults - blame yourself rather than blame others - you are able to see others in a new light. Remove the blame from others to see them for who they really are.

Metanoia

I recently learned a new word, wanted to share it with you. It is Greek, and is used numerous times in the New Testament. To understand what the word means, you have to break it into parts

Meta = change (like meta state)
Noia = perception / mind / consciousness / awareness

So Metanoia is a change in how you perceive what is reality.

My sil was telling me about a new movie. The movie is about a couple that go through a separation, is done from the viewpoint of the wife. The wife finds evidence that her husband is unfaithful. The husband leaves her, never calls, does not seem to feel the least bit of remorse for what he has done to her. The entire movie is the wife trying to cope with feelings of rejection and misuse. At the end of the movie, the husband is found, he has been killed in an accident. He was never unfaithful. He did not return her phone calls because he was dead. She was living in a world that did not really exist. Her feelings were real, anger, jealousy, hatred – all real feelings, all created by a lie.

There are many movies like this that are made. There is some big twist at the end, some new piece of information given, that changes the reality of what you have just seen.

When we are angry and hurt – what reality are we living in? Are we living in a world of our own imagination? Is there some new piece of information that would allow us to see our world in a new light – a change in mind, change in consciousness, change in awareness that make anger and hurt go away?

Imagine you are standing in a circle of people.
In the center of the circle, there is a source of light.
But rather than facing the center and the light, you are standing with your back to the light, facing outward.
When you stand this way, facing away from the light, all you can see is your own shadow.
You cannot see the light.
You can only look into your shadow.
You cannot see the others in the circle with you.
From what you can see, you are disconnected and alone in the dark.
Now imagine that you turn around to face the light that is in the center of the circle.
When you turn toward the light, you no longer see only darkness.
When you turn toward the light, your shadow is behind you.
When you turn toward the light, you can now see the other people who are standing with you.
You can see that the light is shining on everyone and that you are all connected in its radiance.
From metanoia . o r g

Metanoia is turning from dark to light.

Jesus spent his entire mission preaching our need for metanoia.
Metanoia is translated in the English language as "repentance."

[nawab]

I think personally Internal or external repentance makes no difference as your repentance is true and honest, if you are faithful when you repent and are apologising sincerely. then it doesnt really matters if it is done internally or externally.

However, in Islam Internally is encouraged, As sometimes externally you might inform the other person of your sins and he might be Programmed or Tickled to sin.