May I ask of our Muslim Friends. (creation, doctrine, worship)

[Popeyesays]

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

I hope Islam, which would not recognize any new messengers, would at least have for itself a new leadership that ceases challenging other religions by calling them false and instead recognizes that it takes all sorts to make the world.

Such Muslims are in the world today, my friend. But it is easier to pound the drum of dogma to instigate war than it is to play the sweet melodies which generate peace.

We must be patient in God, and realize that it is the journey, not the destination that brings usw to God.

Regards,
Scott

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

You are saying that this unique stone has the capacity to absorb our sins and in doing so it, which was white before, became black. The idea of a stone being able to absorb sins is somewhat far fetched, never mind where the stone came from. Of course, we all have the right to hold such beliefs, like the idol worshippers do. So what you mentioned is not a fact but a belief. In the world of belief, the ludicrous can often be the norm.

Describe it the way you want. This is what i know about the black stone.

This? Why, this was not quoted from any source. It was my own obvious words in describing Mohammad’s kissing of the stone. Only passion aroused by the uniqueness of what was before him could have caused him to kiss a stone. To the best of my knowledge, Hindu idol worshippers do not kiss idols.

We don't worship idols.

I wonder what you mean when you say “from your own source”.

What i meant is that, i quoted that part from the link you gave me, about the stone proven to not be from this planet.

[nawab]

Dear Scott

A sting of a woman is 10,000 times more venomous than of a scorpian, i am sure you understand what i mean.

Asad

[TashaN]

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

[color=black]You are being politically correct in saying, “jackboot politics of the Islamic Republic in Iran” when it would be more correct to say, “in keeping with Islam’s legacy”. First the Parsees, then the Baha’is. Intolerance, thy name is Islam.

You are not the first person who say that, but yet, it always turn to be just another misconception about Islam. If you are looking for mistakes in any religion, so you will find it no matter how perfect it was, because you need to see it imperfect.

Islam always has been a tolerant religion and will be. What some muslims do today no more represent Islam than the Crusade representing Christians today.

If you want to know Islam, go to the dogma itself, but not what the media shows about people who don't even represent 5% of the muslims.

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

Islam was very tolerant, until it chased itself into ignorance and dogma starting around 1600 AD. Every religion does that--pass through springtime, summer, fall--and the senility of winter. Even Hinduism. Even Baha`i when the day comes

That is why new Messengers appear where they are most needed. Persia was the poster child of intolerance, ignorance, empty ritual, parasitic clergy, et al. Muhammed did not bring that into being, men did.

Regards,
Scott

Islam is not intolerant, Scott, and you know that well. Praising the baha'i faith in the expense of islam is a habit of yours, but this is the first time i see you going so far with it. What Iran is doing to your fellow baha'is have nothing to do with Islam and you know that well.

When you talk about intolerane, please stick to Persia (Iran) and don't generalize until you reach Islam, as a religion.

[DarkSun]

Originally Posted by nawab

What about the black stone, the black stone is not an idol it does not have a face like yours or like your picture.

Black stone is just like any gem which is decorated on the Kaaba and Historians tell us even before Islam the Black stone was never worshipped even by the pagens/idol worshippers

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the clich'e English depiction of Jesus just merely a depiction of God when he was made flesh?

According to Christian doctrine, anyway.

Besides that, I can honestly say that I have no idea what God looks like; nor have I ever seen an image of Him.

Why don't Muslims allow depictions of Muhammad? Didn't he have a human form?

[DarkSun]

I'm sure that Scott was just talking about the minorities in Iran.

[Popeyesays]

"Islam is not intolerant, Scott, and you know that well. Praising the baha'i faith in the expense of islam is a habit of yours, but this is the first time i see you going so far with it. What Iran is doing to your fellow baha'is have nothing to do with Islam and you know that well.

When you talk about intolerane, please stick to Persia (Iran) and don't generalize until you reach Islam, as a religion."

The Islamic Revolutionary Government has as one of its branches the Imams of Iran. They can veto and initiate government actions.

Wikipedia (Islamic government): Iran's Islamic republic is in contrast to the semi-secular state of the Republic of Pakistan (proclaimed as an Islamic Republic in 1956) where Islamic laws are technically considered to override laws of the state, though in reality their relative hierarchy is ambiguous."

Islam was very tolerant historically speaking, one cannot call it tolerant as it manifests itself in government bodies. It is or is not tolerant depending upon the particular government in question.

Qur'anically speaking Islam is extremely tolerant, "Let there be no compulsion in religion" is a paradigm of tolerance.

It's the practice by individuals using religion to practice social control that is in question not the words of God expressed through the Prophet Muhammed.

I hope that clarifies.

Regards,
Scott

Pakistan was a haven for Baha`i's fleeing Iran and still is for those who can still get out.

The government of Iran has been extremely intolerant of the Baha`i Faith.

[gotsoul]

It is not surprising that many sects today claims to be Islam.In the Quran, Allah says

"And hold fast all of you together to the rope of Allah,and be not disunited" Quran 3:103


By the 'rope of Allah' is meant that agreement and covenant which was drawn up between us and the Almighty Allah - the covenant of the Quran. This opinion is based on a hadith in which the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "The Book of Allah: It is the Rope of Allah that has been extended down from the heavens to the earth." (Ibn Jarir, Qurtubi)

Imam Razi comments: "Since the path that believers are required to take is a very narrow one, the likelihood of a person slipping off always remains high, except in case of him who holds a rope that runs across." The command to hold fast to the Quran implies that we have been directed to follow the code prescribed through the Quran for our individual as well as collective life. In every difficult situation involving our convictions and ideaology the Quran should be our guiding star for steering us to safety.

By 'be not disunited' it is implied that we must not lose our grip on the Rope of Allah and fall into the snare of prejudice by splitting into groups led by different Imams and leaders, whereby truth and guidance, instead of being radiated directly by the Quran might appear to become the private property of certain individuals and personalities.

Mufti Shafi remarks: "When we speak of unity of ranks, we know that it cannot be attained without the unity of ideas, faiths and objectives. That will come from the Quran and the Sunnah. It is only when we hold fast unto them, accepting them as the sole criteria, guide and judge, that the much sought after unity of ranks, will be achieved. Every other method will fail miserably." [Compiled from 'Juristic Differences' by Amin Ahsan Islahi, pp 14-15 and 'Tafsir Ishraq al-Maani' by Syed Iqbal Zaheer, Vol 2, pp. 89-90]

In short, anyone who are against the Quran or the Sunah, got nothing to do with Islam

[K.Venugopal]