May I ask of our Muslim Friends. (creation, doctrine, worship)

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by nawab

7) I am ashamed of any customs or traditions which are in Islam because of cultural influences, there is nothing addition into Islam, it was already finalized and nothing should be put into.

When was Islam finalized? When Mohammed finished receiving the message from Gabriel after 23 years and it was compiled into the Quran or when the Hadiths and Sunnah of Mohammad were incorporated into Islam? Is following Hadiths and Sunnah sanctioned by Quran? Please clarify.

Originally Posted by nawab

Why i meant Arabn society is because their laws are islamic laws the society is purely Islamic.

Many Arabian countries today are run by royal families and most of them are client states of USA. Are these examples of pure Islamic societies?

Originally Posted by nawab

Not like ours in Pakistan where people still find Music is not a problem, Castes, wedding ceremonies. these are not in islam,

Has Islam forbidden music? Please quote the Quran to prove this

Originally Posted by nawab

i am not ashamed but i fear, these things, these things make you commit sins.

Why are Muslims following things that are not in Islam?

Originally Posted by nawab

In islam every Muslim is our brother, no matter is from Anyplace in the world.

Why don’t at least contiguous Muslim countries form a single nation, particularly those with the same language? Look at how many religions and languages Hinduism has and still India is one nation. Only Islam, because it is unable to accept other religions, formed a separate nation called Pakistan, which did not last long.

Originally Posted by nawab

My biological forefathers were in fact Hindu Indians but my spiritual family is all the muslims around the world, i cant because of my own selfishness betray the whole ideal Universal brotherhood. Even if my real biological father is turning against the truth, I will also have to Fight him.

Of course you would fight your own father in the name of religion just as Abraham broke the idols his own father worshipped. And please do not say universal brotherhood, please say universal Islamic brotherhood. Islam is incapable of including everyone.

Originally Posted by nawab

This is righteousness not saying you are also right and i am also right, this is nonsense.

Righteousness for you is saying Islam is the only truth. Righteousness for me is to accept that though Truth may be one, there are many ways of expressing it.

Originally Posted by nawab

8) regarding Sufism, it is a self doctrine of purification of the heart.

Isn’t purification of the heart a good thing?

Originally Posted by nawab

No matter if you are a Sufi or a mullah if you are blaspheming then you should be punished.

That is, no one is allowed to question the official version of Islam. And who decides what is the official version? The ruling government of the day in the name of Shariat, of course.

Originally Posted by nawab

Sufis is a restricted version for muslims mainly only in India & Pakistan which is not a universal doctrine.

You will be surprised to know that Sufism is respected the world over.

Originally Posted by nawab

These Sufis there acesters found a different approach to convert the non-muslims with a different methodology like monasticism, which is forbid in Islam.

Sufis may have converted Hindus but Sufism itself was influenced by Hinduism.

Originally Posted by nawab

I like to promote Islam with Dawah not a different approach.

Promoting Islam is fine but saying that only Islam is true will be questioned more and more in future, which will finally lead to the exercise of Dawah transforming Islam itself.

Originally Posted by nawab

by first asking them to come together and telling you are also right and i am aslo right so that the person converts because of the Sufi and not really understanding the signs of Islam.

The important thing is not just to understand Islam but also to understand the Truth, of which Islam is only a part.

Originally Posted by nawab

By the way visiting Sufi shrines are not a part of Islamic practices. On the contrary it is agaisnt Islam.

Why is Pakistan not declaring those who go to Sufi shrines as non-Muslims? In fact, all Pakistani dignitaries, including its Presidents, visit Sufi shrines when they come to India.

Originally Posted by nawab

9) History is still being wriiten, you cannot say for sure who will become islamic or who wont. India will definately become an Islamic country, this is my gurantee to you in our life time or not.

Islam already had a chance of making India an Islamic country under the great Mughal empire, at a time when Hindus were in a weak state. If Islam was unable to do it even then, what makes you confident that it will be able to do so in the future?

Originally Posted by nawab

For your information the Kashmiris they are proud to be Kashmiris not Indians or Pakistanis you cant blame anyone for that, they want to be indepandent, they will have to fight the indians for that

Only the Muslims of Kashmir want independence, not the Hindus. This is yet another proof that Muslims are unable to live peacefully with non-Muslims.

Originally Posted by nawab

now regarding Pakistan, that was simple war before the Pakistanis took the Azad Kashmir if you think thats not nice, send your armies and recover it.

India just might.

Originally Posted by nawab

Dont forget that Islamic Rule was still in India, Till Mugal Baadshah Bahadur Shah Zafar, The muslims who fought in India were not remembered as patriots,

Which Muslims do you have in mind? How can Muslims, if they fought alongside foreign conquerors against Indians, be remembered as patriots?

Originally Posted by nawab

so. yet Hindus have proven jis ki late uske bahense. Remember all you did was only riots killing poor people,

The most number of people were killed during the partition of India and this happened because Muslims wanted a nation all by themselves, as they could not live with the Hindus.

Originally Posted by nawab

did any hindu army fought a battle which the muslims lost. I hardly doubt it.

Finally the Hindus won and Muslims no longer rule India, except by democratic consensus.

Originally Posted by nawab

10) Hinduism being the oldest, these are just exaggerations by your scholars,

No exaggeration dear, it is a fact.

Originally Posted by nawab

your scholars dont even know when the Vedas were reavealed and to whom they were.

The Vedas contain spiritual truths that have always existed and these truths are directly seen by whoever meditates at the highest level. (Like Mohammad meditated in the Hira caves). The earliest meditators passed down from generation to generation the great spiritual Truths they saw and it was compiled by Vyasa, a great sage. What Vyasa compiled is what is generally known as the Vedas. But discovery of Truth and its expression and compilation have not ceased and shall not cease as long as mankind survives. The concept of Truth popping up in the middle ages through Mohammad and its expression ending upon his death is not the whole truth!

Originally Posted by nawab

They also agree that it is not in pure form.

All forms are pure if they contain the Truth.

Originally Posted by nawab

In Islam we beleive that the first man on earth Adam was a muslim. which is confirmed by Christian and Jewish scriptures that Adam is the first man, eveen today there are researches confirming this. Adam brought the message of Islam,

How could Adam have been a Muslim when Islam was founded by Mohammad? (Islam, according to the present reality, is not only the teachings of the Quran, but also of Mohammad through the Hadiths and Sunnah. Can you be a Muslim if you don’t follow what Mohammad taught? Salaat, for example? Or are you saying being a Muslim meant a different thing to Adam? If you can be a Muslim by being different, then why not call the Hindus also Muslims?

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by nawab

all prophets brought the message of Islam.

And where are those messages today to prove that it was indeed Islam? If they are lost, does it not mean that Islam is unable to last long and has to be renewed regularly? In that case, what is the guarantee that the current Islam will also not be renewed in the future?

Originally Posted by nawab

Prophet Muhammd was the final Prophet of Islam.

Prophet Mohammad is the only prophet of Islam, the first and the last. If you call prophets before Mohammad as Muslims, prove from sources before the Quran that this is so, that the Prophets have said that they are Muslims.

Originally Posted by nawab

Just tell me how old the vedas are to whom it were reaveled, what does it explains about th creation of man and universe, what does it talks about weather, geology, astronomy, embrology.

The Vedas are older than the Quran, to be sure. The Vedas say all existence is one, expressing itself as many. The Vedas are a storehouse of much knowledge, not borrowed ones like in the Quran. Can you give me an original knowledge traceable to the Quran?

Originally Posted by nawab

Because God knew that the muslims would makes these discoveries pass teh m over to the british and bring them to you.

Can you give me any discovery the Muslims made based on the Quran which was not already known to mankind?

Originally Posted by nawab

Truley Hindusism doesnt force anyone to accept any scripture to follow thats why at the end you end up following none.

Hindus have a choice of religions and there are many Hindu religions today that have many followers. Remember Hinduism does not mean a single religion. It is a spiritual culture that encourages the discovery of God and its expression in many ways.

Originally Posted by nawab

11) well i suppose that is the only difference between windows and religion.

This is an important difference.

Originally Posted by nawab

Look I challenge you to find a verse from the quran where it say that Force people to convert

"Quran 9:29 - Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Originally Posted by nawab

we are informed in the quran that Let there be no compulsion in religion.

The implication of the verse “2:256 - There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way” is, leave those who do not follow the right way (Islam) to their dire fate. This verse only proves that Allah is intolerant of other faiths.

Originally Posted by nawab

Just find one verse from the quran which allows us to slaughter non-muslim, this would make our job alot easier.

“Sura (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."

Originally Posted by nawab

Michael H Hart (a non-muslim) wrote a book 100 most influential people in history, no.1 was prophet Muhammad PBUH, No.3 was Jesus PBUH, where was Ram and where was krishna. Why did he mentioned the prophet Muhammd to be no.1.

I have no quarrel with Mohammad being the most influential man in history. But I am not very sure about the quality of that influence.

Originally Posted by nawab

He married Aisha, he didnt rape her for your information plus she was sent to his house at the age of 12 when the age of puberty, but they did not have any sexual relations as she did not have a son. Whats the big deal of a 55 year old man marriying a 9 year old without sexual relations

Are you saying Aisha was a virgin at 18 when Mohammad died? And she remained a virgin the rest of her life because she did not marry again? So Mohammad did not force her into sex but forced her into virginity.

Originally Posted by nawab

and how about those Hindu priest who have sex with child Temple prostitutes. you are the one who is narrow minded,

That is a malpractice and Hindus have recognized it so (malpractices creep in over a period of time in any social order) but it is not sanctioned by Hinduism and that practice is not there today. But Muslims are justifying Mohammad’s marrying a 9 year old girl at 54 and appear to be even proud of it. Very broad minded, indeed.

Originally Posted by nawab

Our religion is not customer service where the followers are the customers, they are always right. Our prophet wanted people to beleive in his inspiration which was reaveled from God and wanted us to be like him, which unfortunately many of us have failed.

. Islam is restricted to believe. Its aim is to turn mankind into slaves of Allah. Hinduism focuses on experience and its aim is to afford mankind the discovery of its divinity.

Originally Posted by nawab

11) how about Hinduism, Hinduism is still in like the stone age or something, There is a temple of Lord Ganesh, where there are tens of thousand of rats in the temple and people are eating from the same plate with them, there is no hygene rules even in Hinduism, it is your religion which are only for the local hindus not to expanded to other parts.

Since Hinduism is the teaching and practice of divinity, a temple dedicated to rats is only to give the worshipper the insight that divinity is extant in all, even in rats.

Originally Posted by nawab

You know when the tourist go to India they are so afraid of the water over there,

This is also true of the tourist when he visits Pakistan.

Originally Posted by nawab

Any educated Hindu will become a athiest because he feels that religion is not compatible with science. Of course what scientific facts are mentioned in Hinduism.

Hinduism is the expression of those who have discovered the divine and the discovery that all existence is divine is the greatest science. Educated atheists are comfortable with Hinduism because Hinduism is not just a matter of believe, it is an expression of experience.

Originally Posted by nawab

Dear Scienitist, Can see a word, if your answer is no, then it is not an idol, if your answer is yes i suggest you seek psycatric counsuling before it is too late,

Words, when uttered or thought, create vibrations. Only that which is material can create any sort of movement. All things material can be idols, if worshipped. Since you worship Allah, a sound phenomenon, you are indeed worshipping an idol. And Islam cannot overcome this idol worship because it believes that the worshipper and the worshipped are separate. The worshipper can transcend idol worship only when he attains silence and this can come about only when there is no difference between the worshipper and the worshipped.

[Popeyesays]

K.,

al-Islam means "The Submission" as in submitting to the will of God. "Muslim" means "One Who Submits".

Therefore Abraham revealed Submission to the Will of God, as did Moses, as did Jesus, as did Zoroaster, as did Krshna, Muhammed, The Bab, Baha`u'llah were and are all Muslims in the sense that They all submit to the Will of God.

Regards,
Scott

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

K.,

al-Islam means "The Submission" as in submitting to the will of God. "Muslim" means "One Who Submits".

Therefore Abraham revealed Submission to the Will of God, as did Moses, as did Jesus, as did Zoroaster, as did Krshna, Muhammed, The Bab, Baha`u'llah were and are all Muslims in the sense that They all submit to the Will of God.

Regards,
Scott

I guess that Buddha is the odd man out in this motley crew, eh... or was he a "muslim" too?

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by Popeyesays

al-Islam means "The Submission" as in submitting to the will of God. "Muslim" means "One Who Submits".

Therefore Abraham revealed Submission to the Will of God, as did Moses, as did Jesus, as did Zoroaster, as did Krshna, Muhammed, The Bab, Baha`u'llah were and are all Muslims in the sense that They all submit to the Will of God.

I think the followers of Islam have tailored the religion to mean submission to Allah in a particular way. If only, say, the Imam of the Grand Mosque at Mecca declares all who submit to the will of God any which way are Muslims and opens the doors of the Mosque to Kafirs like me ...