May I ask of our Muslim Friends. (creation, doctrine, worship)

[Colabomb]

For the record, except for some misguided people, Christian icons are not an object of worship. We worship the Creator rather than the Created, the icon merely helps us concentrate on Him and His work through the symbolism in the art.

Only God is Worthy of Worship.

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by Colabomb

For the record, except for some misguided people, Christian icons are not an object of worship. We worship the Creator rather than the Created, the icon merely helps us concentrate on Him and His work through the symbolism in the art.

Only God is Worthy of Worship.

Actually, this is also the understanding of Hindu idol worshippers. Since Hindus believe all existence is divine, the Hindu idol-worshipper concentrates on the specific to celebrate the totality.

[Colabomb]

well no, its different in the sense that in Hindu Belief God and his creation are the same. God is in all is all etc.

In Traditional Judeo-Christian Belief, God and His Creation are seperate. The Icon focuses our mind, but to actually show reverence to the icon is sin.

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by Colabomb

well no, its different in the sense that in Hindu Belief God and his creation are the same. God is in all is all etc.

In Traditional Judeo-Christian Belief, God and His Creation are seperate. The Icon focuses our mind, but to actually show reverence to the icon is sin.

Of course, I understand and respect the Christian belief about God, though I am unable to understand the Christian insistence that Jesus is the only way of salvation (or Jesus’ way is the only way of salvation). However, I personally see Jesus as a metaphor for spirituality and therefore I am very comfortable with Jesus and the Bible.

[nawab]

Yet even this story is agreed by most islamic scholars, that doesnt prove that it is used as worship or as a salvation. Everything white due time turns into black plus you every years millions of pillgrims go there for Hajj (Holy Pillgrimage in Mecca) we have to kiss the stone as a part of the rites as the stone according to Islamic traditions will bear witness for us, who have performed the Hajj

As you say the stone is from Heaven, if any ordinary stick could turn into a Snake.
why cant anything happen by God Will, i dont understand, anyway the story of the Black Stone, is not mentioned in the Quran. So, we dont put much emphasis on it.

the Prophet told us any person who have performed the Pillgrim will have his sins earased. It is an ordinary stone, which will bear witness for us, and absorbes our sins by God Almightys command. The Law of Science in the world does not apply on God Almighty. We cannot explain his mights even in the most expressive language.

By the way, brother we dont focus much on Miracles.

Originally Posted by K.Venugopal

I quote the following from Wikipedia:

"According to Islamic tradition, the Stone fell from Heaven during the time of Adam and Eve, when it was a pure and dazzling white, but has since turned black because of the sins it has absorbed over the years[2]. It was later removed and hidden in the hill of Abu Qubays near Mecca. When Abraham rebuilt the Kaaba, the Archangel Gabriel brought the stone out of hiding and gave it to him.[6] Muhammad is said to have played a key part in the history of the Black Stone. In 602, before the first of his prophetic revelations, he was present in Mecca during the rebuilding of the Kaaba. The Black Stone had been temporarily removed while a new structure was being constructed. A story found in Ibn Ishaq's Sirah Rasul Allah (as reconstructed and translated by Guillaume) shows Muhammad settling a quarrel between Meccan clans as to which clan should set the Black Stone in place. His solution was to have all the clan elders raise the cornerstone on a cloak, and then Muhammad set the stone into its final place with his own hands."

Is the Black Stone a mere ordinary stone? Can any stone that absorbs sins be an ordinary stone?

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by nawab

...the stone according to Islamic traditions will bear witness for us, who have performed the Hajj

A stone bearing witness? Why do you still keep saying it is an ordinary stone?

[nawab]

Because for us Muslims it is not a big thing that we have to be amused but it seems that maybe do not know the Strenght of God almighty thats why you feel different. It is an ordinary stone.

e.g. a small seed so tiny that you can hold with 2 fingers grows so tall, this is also a miracle but you dont find it extra ordinary do you.

[K.Venugopal]

Originally Posted by nawab

Because for us Muslims it is not a big thing that we have to be amused but it seems that maybe do not know the Strenght of God almighty thats why you feel different. It is an ordinary stone.

e.g. a small seed so tiny that you can hold with 2 fingers grows so tall, this is also a miracle but you dont find it extra ordinary do you.

If you believe the following are facts, then you have to concede that the Black Stone is an extraordinary stone.

A pure and dazzling white stone falls from heaven during the time of Adam and Eve, which eventually turns black as it absorbs man’s sins over the years, is later removed and hidden and when Abraham rebuilds the Kaaba, the Archangel Gabriel (no less) brings the very stone out of “hiding”, then again Mohammad reinstalls the stone (not any stone but THE stone) in the Kaaba and kisses it. Today that stone is the epicenter of Islamic consciousness – signifying the direction to send prayers to Allah.

A stone with such a colourful history and central to Islamic rituals is certainly no ordinary stone. The power of Allah has made this stone a special stone. Why deny it is a big thing in Islam?

[nawab]

look, brother you have mentioned 2 things, 1st the stone is the direction of prayer, the real direction is the Masjid al Haram where the Kabaa (Black Cube) is located. that is our Kibla (direcection) I hope this part is clear, the stone is not. Remember the stone is only in one of the four sides but people perform prayers around the cube.

Moreover, I said, if you feel it is an extra ordinary stone, from the way you are thinking i agree with you, but see brother in Islam we admire the painter not the painting. the stone was also created, Allah creates but is not created so, we dont feel any created things are extra ordinary. our creator is far superior. for him to create a million Jesus is just like that and to create a million of these kind of stones is just like that. We are too much used to miracles, in this world there are alot of amazing things, for more information i suggest you can study from Harun Yahya videos about Islamic Creationism, I hope my explaination was clear enough.

[Colabomb]

Originally Posted by nawab

but see brother in Islam we admire the painter not the painting. the stone was also created,

Thats actually exactly how we see Christian iconography. We use the created to meditate on the creator.