is jesus god ? (gospel, disciples, eternal, bible, Abraham)

[musharraf]

christian says jesus claim divinity !
there is not a single verse in the complete bible where he him self claimed as god !

if any one find that verse please tell me .but
a verse a time !
it will be fair for discussion.

[michel]

from:-http://www.everystudent.com/wires/whodoyousay.html

Is Jesus God? How he implied he was God:

The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. (John 8:57-59)
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)
And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me. And he who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me. I have come as light into the world, that everyone who believes in Me may not remain in darkness." (John 12:44-46)
And so when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments, and reclined at the table again, He said to them, "Do you know what I have done to you? You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for I am. If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:12-14)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)

There's plenty more there.............

[kai]

it depends who you ask , if you ask me i say no

[Francine]

Originally Posted by musharraf

christian says jesus claim divinity ! there is not a single verse in the complete bible where he him self claimed as god !

John 5:[23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

[sandy whitelinger]

Originally Posted by musharraf

christian says jesus claim divinity !
there is not a single verse in the complete bible where he him self claimed as god !

if any one find that verse please tell me .but
a verse a time !
it will be fair for discussion.

[ChristineES]

Jesus did claim to be God, particularly in The Gospel of John.

But wouldn't this go into a debates forum?

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by musharraf

christian says jesus claim divinity !
there is not a single verse in the complete bible where he him self claimed as god !

if any one find that verse please tell me .but
a verse a time !
it will be fair for discussion.

Greetings musharraf,

I would have to beg to differ you on several counts. First, Jesus did claim to be God when he claimed to be "I am" in John 8:58. According to Greek scholar A. T. Robertson, "Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God" (Word Pictures in the New Testament, 5:158-59). Second, Jesus' deity is attested in his ability to do things that only God could do (i.e., raise the dead, give life, forgive sins, etc.). Third, Jesus disciples and apostles attest to his deity in the declarations they made about him (Jn. 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8). Fourth, even Jesus' archenemy, the devil attested to his deity when he tempted him in the wilderness when he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread" (Matt. 4:3). Since the context shows that Satan knew exactly who Jesus was, the conditional "if" is better understood as "since," and that Satan was manipulating Jesus to do that which was contrary to his nature, rather than attempting to prove to Jesus that he was not the Son of God, which is an allusion to deity.

So, with all due respect, Jesus not only declared himself God through his "I am" statements, but several others who knew Jesus, his works, and his nature, recognized him as God as well.

[musharraf]

w0w solam , peace be unto u all
i ask for a verse and here is many , after reading all these reply ,i realized how important the context is , thanx my dear friends for your reply.
what i understant is,there is many ambigoues staements in the bible (new testiment ) which assume to be for divinity of christ which he himself spoken (the red letter bible) but in context, when i read those verses i didnt find a single verse where he claim to be ;God almighty; or equal to him.
lets take verse one by one if you people donot mind,

'I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE'
THIS IS THE VERSE WHICH CHRISTIANS QUATE OUT OF CONTEXT GLOBALY

LETS SEE THE CONTEXT , AFTER CONTEXT YOU TELL ME THAT STILL THIS VERSE SPOKE ABOUT DIVINITY OF CHRIST ?

for the context, ‘I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE'- you have to go to the Gospel of John, Ch. No.10, Verse No. 23,
CH.-NO 10 ';23 Jesus walked into the temple, in Solomon’s porch’.
10;24 and the Jews came around him and asked him. ‘How long does thou make us doubt? - If thou art the Christ, tell us plainly’.
10;25 Verse No.25 says, ‘I told you, but you believe me not - the works that I do in my father’s name, - they bear witness of me.
10;26 , ‘you believe not because you are not my sheep, as I said unto you’
( The Jews, they are asking Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) that ‘Why don’t you speak plainly?’. So he tells them that…‘Yes I am the Messiah - I have told you clearly, but because you are not my sheep, you don’t believe in me.)

10;27 Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) continues saying that… ‘My sheep - they hear my voice, and I know them - and they follow me.
10;28 … ‘I give them eternal life - no man can pluck them out of my hand, and they shall not perish’.
10;29 ‘My father who giveth to me, He is greater than all - No man can pluck them out of my father’s hand.
Then Verse No. 30 says, ‘I and my father are one’
Any person who has little bit sense can make out, ‘I and my father are one’ doesn’t mean one - as one person. It means one is purpose
Verse No.28 says, ‘No man can pluck them out of my hand – Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) says- ‘No man can pluck them out of my hand’.
Verse No.29 is saying. ‘No man can pluck them out of my father’s hand means no man can pluck them out of eithers hand .
Verse No.30 says ‘I and my father are one’ in purpose.
Both Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) and Almighty God - they are one in purpose.
If I say that my father is a doctor Even I am a medical doctor. . If I say, ‘I and my father are one’ - What does it mean? It means one in purpose - As medical profession, my father is a doctor - Even I am a doctor. It doesn’t mean that ‘I and my father are one’. It means my father is a medical doctor - even I am a medical doctor.
. But Christians say ‘No.. No – it means ‘one’ - actual Unity. So we say… ‘Okay, you say actual unity… let us read further’
If you go ahead in the Gospel of John, Ch. No.17, Verse No.21, it says that, Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) said that… ‘Ye all of them are one - My father in me, and I in thee, we all are one’.
Does it mean that God Almighty, is in Jesus Christ… and Jesus Christ is in all his 12 disciples. So there will be 14 gods - Jesus Christ, God Almighty, and 12 disciples.

The same ‘one’ is used there, and here. If you go to the source, the same word is used - If you go to the Greek… the same word is used - So does it mean you have 14 gods?
And among those disiples, Judas was a traitor -. Even he is God?
Thomas doubted Jesus Christ (peace be upon him ) - is he God?
‘Peter’ - Jesus Christ says … ‘is satanic?’- Is he also God? No, - all of them, God Almighty - Jesus Christ and the Apostles, are one in purpose
they are same. Again if you go 2 verses ahead - Gospel of John, Ch. 17, Verse 23, says that, ‘I am in thee, and you are in me’… he tells the disciples. Does it make all them God? No! It means one in purpose.
But then Christians will say, ‘I have quoted the first part... why don’t you quote after that... after Verse No.30 - Gospel of John Chapter 10. Lets go ahead -

Gospel of John, Ch. No. 10, Verse No.31. says, ‘And Jews picked up stones again, to stone at Jesus (peace be upon him) Verse No. 32, says… ‘And Jesus (peace be upon him) asked them

for which of the good works of my father, do you stone me?’ Verse No. 33, says that…‘We don’t’ stone you for any good works, but because you blashpheme – being a man, you call yourself God – that is why we stone you’.
the Jews say that see he is trying to blaspheme, calling himself ‘God’. Good riddance - they want to kill him - good riddance.
The Christians say ooh! the Jews called him God Almighty - See they understood him correctly - for redemption. One wants for redemption - they are calling him God - the other group of people for good riddance.
But the answer is given in the next verse - Verse no. 34, of John Ch. 10,
jesus says, that…‘Is it not mentioned in your Scriptures that ye are gods?

and if the person to whom the word’ of God came … if he says… ‘god’ - the Scripture is not broken.

. If you check up in the Bible, in the Psalms, Ch. No. 82, Verse No.6, does say that, ‘Ye are gods’.

. So Jesus Christ gave the answer, that the person to whom the ‘Word’ of God came, if you call him ‘God’, it is not blaspheme. It is meaning that… they are one in purpose.
HE CLEARLY TOLD THEM THAT HE IS USING THE LANGUAGE OF SCRIPTURE IN WHICH THE JEWS WERE CALLED GOD
SO IF U USE THIS WORD FOR WHOOM ,THE SCRIPTURE HAS CAME IT IS NOT BLASHPHMY .

I HOPE THIS CONTEXT IS SUFFIECIENT FOR EVERY ONE TO UNDERSTANT THAT THIS VERSE IS NOT CLAIMING DIVINITY.
I KNOW THERE ARE MANY VERSES , WHICH YOU PEOPLE HAS QUOATED , BUT MY POINT IS THAT WE WILL GO TO ALL THOSE VERSES ONE BY ONE .
IF ANY ONE WANNA QUOATE FURTHER PLS GIVE CONTEXT .

SOLAM (PEACE BE UNTO YOU ALL )

[musharraf]

Originally Posted by Francine

John 5:[23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

solam peace be unto u
is it not fir that we shall see the verse you quoted with context
john 5 verse 1 to 15 spoke about the healing of a lame persone by jesus you can read it .
verse 16 so, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God

LOOK HERE HOW JSUS SIMPLY SAID THAT THE FATHER WORK IN THIS DAY SO I AM TO WORKING WHAT WROUNG IN THIS VERSE ?
THE JEWS THEY MISUNDERSTOOD HIM THAT HE IS CLAIMING DIVINITY .THAT
HE IS MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD . AND TH TRIED TO KILL HIM.
BUT IN THE NEXT FEW VERSES HE DEFENED HIMSELF, SEE BELOW !

19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
HE IS SAYING THEM THAT I AM NOT DOING THIS WITH MY OWN WHAT EVER FATHER TEEL ME I DO .IN OTHER WORD FATHER IS AGREE WITH ME TO DO THIS WORK ON SABATH.

20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

LOOK OT IS CLEARLY MENTION THAT FATHER HAS GIVEN THE POWER TO SON TO GIVE LIFE TO DEAD THAT ALL MAY HONOR THE SON .NOT TO MAKE HIM GOD OR EQUAL TO GOD, TO BELIEVE AND WORSHIP ONE TRUE GOD NOT WORSHIP HIMSELF(JESUS)
DONT YOU KNOW THE VERSE JESUS SAID
MY FATHR IS GREATER THAN I
MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN ALL
I CAST OUT DEVIL WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD
WITH THE FINGER OF GOD I CAST OUT DEVIL

N THE FOLLOWING VERSE IS THE END OF THE STORY WHICH YOU STARTED SEE

ICAN OF MY OWN SELF DO NOTHING WHTEVER I HEAR I JUDGE AND MY JUDEMENT IS JUST BECAUSE I SEEK NOT MY WILL BUT THE WILL OF FATHER WHO HAVE SENT ME .

DONT YOU READ THE

"And Jesus lifted up his
eyes (towards heaven) and said, Father, I thank thee
that THOU HAST HEARD ME. "And I know that THOU
HEAREST ME ALWAYS: but because of the people
which stand by I said my supplication aloud that
THEY MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me. "And
when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice,
lazarus, come forth "And he that was dead came

forth . . .JOHN 11 :41-43

Who then gave life back to Lazarus? The answer is
"GOD!" For God heard the prayer of Jesus, as

always!",,,

LISTEN NOW TO PETER'S TESTIMONY: YE MEN

of Israel (Jews!) hear these words; Jesus of
Nazareth, A MAN approved of God, , , _ (meaning a
prophet) among you by miracles and wonders and
signs, which GOD DID BY HIM in the midst of you, as

ye yourselves also know." ACTS 2:22

I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND WHICH HONOR HE IS TALKING ABOUT

[musharraf]

Originally Posted by Francine

John 5:[23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

solam peace be unto u
is it not fir that we shall see the verse you quoted with context
john 5 verse 1 to 15 spoke about the healing of a lame persone by jesus you can read it .
verse 16 so, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." 18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God

LOOK HERE HOW JSUS SIMPLY SAID THAT THE FATHER WORK IN THIS DAY SO I AM TO WORKING WHAT WROUNG IN THIS VERSE ?
THE JEWS THEY MISUNDERSTOOD HIM THAT HE IS CLAIMING DIVINITY .THAT
HE IS MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD . AND TH TRIED TO KILL HIM.
BUT IN THE NEXT FEW VERSES HE DEFENED HIMSELF, SEE BELOW !

19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
HE IS SAYING THEM THAT I AM NOT DOING THIS WITH MY OWN WHAT EVER FATHER TEEL ME I DO .IN OTHER WORD FATHER IS AGREE WITH ME TO DO THIS WORK ON SABATH.

20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

LOOK OT IS CLEARLY MENTION THAT FATHER HAS GIVEN THE POWER TO SON TO GIVE LIFE TO DEAD THAT ALL MAY HONOR THE SON .NOT TO MAKE HIM GOD OR EQUAL TO GOD, TO BELIEVE AND WORSHIP ONE TRUE GOD NOT WORSHIP HIMSELF(JESUS)
DONT YOU KNOW THE VERSE JESUS SAID
MY FATHR IS GREATER THAN I
MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN ALL
I CAST OUT DEVIL WITH THE SPIRIT OF GOD
WITH THE FINGER OF GOD I CAST OUT DEVIL

N THE FOLLOWING VERSE IS THE END OF THE STORY WHICH YOU STARTED SEE

ICAN OF MY OWN SELF DO NOTHING WHTEVER I HEAR I JUDGE AND MY JUDEMENT IS JUST BECAUSE I SEEK NOT MY WILL BUT THE WILL OF FATHER WHO HAVE SENT ME .

DONT YOU READ THE

"And Jesus lifted up his
eyes (towards heaven) and said, Father, I thank thee
that THOU HAST HEARD ME. "And I know that THOU
HEAREST ME ALWAYS: but because of the people
which stand by I said my supplication aloud that
THEY MAY BELIEVE that thou hast sent me. "And
when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice,
lazarus, come forth "And he that was dead came

forth . . .JOHN 11 :41-43

Who then gave life back to Lazarus? The answer is
"GOD!" For God heard the prayer of Jesus, as

always!",,,

LISTEN NOW TO PETER'S TESTIMONY: YE MEN

of Israel (Jews!) hear these words; Jesus of
Nazareth, A MAN approved of God, , , _ (meaning a
prophet) among you by miracles and wonders and
signs, which GOD DID BY HIM in the midst of you, as

ye yourselves also know." ACTS 2:22

I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND WHICH HONOR HE IS TALKING ABOUT
SOLAM PEACE BE UNTO YOU