What about the 7-day creation story? (Earth, bible, trinity, Apostle)

[nawab]

Peace, Mercy and Blessings of God Almighty be on all of you

1) regarding Jesus that he was send as a savior and as a last prophet as you mentioned as previously Prophets were killed, like John the Baptist whom we call Yahya PBUH, so Jesus was send as a final solution here I agree with you because this is what the Bible says as well, that I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. However, Jesus was the last Prophet send to the Children of Israel and he was limited to them. Previously they were chosen by God al Mighty as the chosen people but they disobeyed. They didnt follow the message of Jesus so they were replaced.
Jesus as a prophet, it is understood even you mentioned that he is a prophet. Now Jesus cannot be a Prophet, God, son of God at the same time. If Jesus claimed divinity or had to be worshiped. He must have said worship me. which he didnt in the bible. Any version, King James, RSV, New Internation, New World. He didnt.
Moreover, we can listen to Jesus, his Humility.
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God


2) You say that Mankind, no longer has the death penality which i disagree that there are sins today and due time, the sins are increasing. Basic Christian Doctrine only teaches us John 3:16 and nothing else during my encounters with Christian Missionaries, they dont teach us anything beside salvation they dont teach us about any hygiene, Diet, Social Morality, Evils of society, establishing prayers and fast. nothing of these kinds. I will tell you why sins are increasing because People are beleiving that they are saved and now no matter what they do as long as they beleive in John 3:16 they are saved a good example is John Abruzzi in Prison break 1 & 2 and Hittler who was a roman Catholic but yet a Christian. According to me this is not the message my master Jesus PBUH conveyed. Yet today sins are increasing.

please tell me what will happen to Christians who beleive in the blood of Lord Jesus as a savior
but have commited sins like slavery, murder, rape etc.

3) Your interpretation was what the chruch teaches and not what it really means according to the bible. Moreover, the gospels, We beleive in the gospel of Jesus and not Mark, Mathew, John and Luke. See i think you should also agree that our salvation do not depend on peoples intrepretations.

4) You talked about a six year old giving the burden, suppose if my son six year old he is convinced by his friend that he wants to work and be independent, and he proves to me that he can work and he found work should i curse him that his entire sons would be born in sin. Adam was deceived by Satan and he repented and was forgived. This story only proved one thing that even prophets can make mistake but they always repented and are always forgived. The tree was not kept from mankind but was kept away from Adam, Mankind didnt exsist back then. God has created Adam and his decendants to be the vice regent of God on earth. Death meant separation, for Adam couldnt That meant the same for Jesus when Jesus Died on the cross. However, Human beings are the greatest creation ever created by God, better then Angels,

So suppose Adam was not forgiven, as you said, I would call my God a unjust God. Why am i born in sin for a crime i have not commited. My Father murdered someone and the Judge sentances me to be Hanged, Truely its an unfair world

5) You said that Jesus saves people without discrimination but it is Jesus who said
Mathew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Racism is justified in the bible, so i dont blame the European invaders for invading and for slavery. Seriously. nor i blame any Christians for Adultry, Incest, Homosexuality because it is told in the bible without any punishment and many holy men commited these acts without repent and any punishment. We can only love one another until we come to a common platform, after 2000 years of preaching this is what it has come up with. Look at the western nations like Jesus said every good tree will bear good fruit, every evil tree will bear evil fruit. From the truth ye shall judge them. I can give a 5 hour lecture just on Racism in the bible.

My whole point was to tell you that we should beleive in, pray to, ask forgiviness from, seek aid, repent to the One true God almighty rather then any preist, Mullah, Imam, Jesus PBUH, Pope HH, Muhammad PBUH, these are just signs of his almighty grace. Admire the Painter not the painting my friend.

The reason i why i said to be excused if i had made any comments which seem offensive was. 1st. the speculaters might have a negitive impression, you and I can be liberal as we have exchanged serveral posts. I understand that you are quite learned as well and i know what i am saying i am a student of comparitive religion and i am in Dawah field that is the Islamic version of Misssionary services. 2nd it is a tradition of our Prophet Muhammad PBUH that even when you are socializing with your closest circle of friends, before you leave ask them for forgiveness as well as we never know when we have unintensionally offended someone.

[look3467]

Regarding Jesus that he was send as a savior and as a last prophet as you mentioned as previously Prophets were killed, like John the Baptist whom we call Yahya PBUH, so Jesus was send as a final solution here I agree with you because this is what the Bible says as well, that I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.However, Jesus was the last Prophet send to the Children of Israel and he was limited to them. Previously they were chosen by God al Mighty as the chosen people but they disobeyed.>>>nawab

In that last sentence in red, you will find the key to understanding.
God chose a people to introduce Himself to the world with.
They were as one might say; “the first born” set to inherit the kingdom of their God.
But in order for God to take in the rest of the world’s people, His chosen ones must reject Him so that He may go to be received by the rest of the world.

Continued on next post

Since the Jewish High Priests had the authority to offer up animal sacrifices for the people, they were instrumental in offering Jesus, the sacrificial lamb of the world up to God.

Jesus told them that they must go through Him to get to the Father and to them that was blasphemy for making Himself equal to God.

What that did was the same picture or situation of Esau and Jacob. Where Esau (=Jewish nation) was the first born, and Jacob (=Jesus) stole their birthright from the Father.

They didn’t follow the message of Jesus so they were replaced. And that is correct, their birthright was stolen by Jesus.

Jesus as a prophet, it is understood even you mentioned that he is a prophet. Now Jesus cannot be a Prophet, God, son of God at the same time. >>>nawab

As a Prophet?
Joh 9:17 They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.
Joh 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
Joh 4:44 For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.

As God? Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

Mar 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?

As the Son of God?
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

If Jesus claimed divinity or had to be worshiped. He must have said worship me. Which he didnt in the bible. Any version, King James, RSV, New Internation, New World. He didnt. >>>nawab

That is correct; Jesus did not claim divinity, for you recall He washed the Apostles feet.
Since only God could forgive sins, and give life to a dead world, than Jesus had in Him the full Godhead bodily.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Moreover, we can listen to Jesus, his Humility.
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God>>>nawab

To claimthat He was God and expect homage, would be a human attribute, but He had the Spirit of God in Him.

2) You say that Mankind, no longer has the death penalty which I disagree that there are sins today and due time, the sins are increasing. Basic Christian Doctrine only teaches us John 3:16 and nothing else during my encounters with Christian Missionaries, they dont teach us anything beside salvation they don’t teach us about any hygiene, Diet, Social Morality, Evils of society, establishing prayers and fast. nothing of these kinds. I will tell you why sins are increasing because People are believing that they are saved and now no matter what they do as long as they believe in John 3:16 they are saved a good example is John Abruzzi in Prison break 1 & 2 and Hitler who was a roman Catholic but yet a Christian. According to me this is not the message my master Jesus PBUH conveyed. Yet today sins are increasing. >>>nawab

God took care of the sin that kept us from entering heaven by becoming sin Himself in the form of a human body Jesus, and having it sacrificed, done away with. Killed off.

please tell me what will happen to Christians who believe in the blood of Lord Jesus as a savior
but have committed sins like slavery, murder, rape etc. >>>nawab

God saves the soul; mankind is accountable for its own behavior.
What you sow, shall you reap.
Those who fall prey to the fleshly desires must face the consequences, whether they believe or not.

3) Your interpretation was what the church teaches and not what it really means according to the bible. Moreover, the gospels, we believe in the gospel of Jesus and not Mark, Mathew, John and Luke. See I think you should also agree that our salvation do not depend on peoples interpretations. >>>nawab

The Gospels show the four faces of Jesus.
Matthew as Kingship
Mark as servant
Luke as man
John as divinity

Continued on the next post.

[look3467]

Continued from the previous post.

And your right, salvation does not depend on peoples interpretations, but salvation is of God, and none of our own making.

4) You talked about a six year old giving the burden, suppose if my son six year old he is convinced by his friend that he wants to work and be independent, and he proves to me that he can work and he found work should I curse him that his entire sons would be born in sin. Adam was deceived by Satan and he repented and was forgiven. This story only proved one thing that even prophets can make mistake but they always repented and are always forgiven. The tree was not kept from mankind but was kept away from Adam, Mankind didn’t exist back then. God has created Adam and his descendants to be the vice regent of God on earth. Death meant separation, for Adam couldn’t That meant the same for Jesus when Jesus Died on the cross. However, Human beings are the greatest creation ever created by God, better then Angels, >>>nawab

A young 6 year old has no concept of what sin is, only what they tell him it might be, therefore he is innocent of sin.
But when he reaches the age of understanding of the concept of sin, then, separation sets in as a curse.
And that curse is what Jesus came to remove so that we might be free to worship God in heart.

So suppose Adam was not forgiven, as you said, I would call my God a unjust God. Why am i born in sin for a crime i have not committed. My Father murdered someone and the Judge sentences me to be Hanged, Truly its an unfair world. >>>nawab

All from Adam to Christ were held in prison between heaven and earth, for there was no entrance available to them in heaven.
God had to open the door by sacrificing His son to own the tree of knowledge of good and evil and nail it to the cross, once and for all.

5) You said that Jesus saves people without discrimination but it is Jesus who said
Mathew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. >>>nawab

You have to understand that the Jewish High priests, the Pharmacies and the Sadducees could not see Jesus as Gods Son, therefore, Jesus spoke against them in good reason, for they were as like dogs, and His words went un heard, and they trample over Jesus on the way to the hill of Calvary and rent Him.

Please understand that all that was prophesied and planned by God to happen, therefore had to be said in fulfillment of that plan all prior to the cross.

Racism is justified in the bible, so I don’t blame the European invaders for invading and for slavery. Seriously; nor I blame any Christians for Adultery, Incest, Homosexuality because it is told in the bible without any punishment and many holy men committed these acts without repent and any punishment. We can only love one another until we come to a common platform, after 2000 years of preaching this is what it has come up with. Look at the western nations like Jesus said every good tree will bear good fruit, every evil tree will bear evil fruit. From the truth ye shall judge them. I can give a 5 hour lecture just on Racism in the bible. >>>nawa

b

My friend, God is no respecter of persons; therefore He is not a racist!

What you are stating is that mankind is racist in their evil behavior, but not God.
God is all good and no evil can be found in Him.
Mankind perceptions of God’s character is lacking in understanding.

My whole point was to tell you that we should believe in, pray to, ask forgiveness from, seek aid, repent to the One true God almighty rather then any priest, Mullah, Imam, Jesus PBUH, Pope HH, Muhammad PBUH, these are just signs of his almighty grace. Admire the Painter not the painting my friend. >>>nawab

I will agree with you all except for Jesus, He is the only name under heaven given amongst men for salvation.
The painter is God and He has painted a beautiful picture of all His wondrous works.
His greatest work is Jesus.
For the bible says: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The reason I why I said to be excused if I had made any comments which seem offensive was. 1st. the speculators might have a negative impression; you and I can be liberal as we have exchanged several posts. I understand that you are quite learned as well and i know what i am saying i am a student of comparative religion and I am in Dawah field that is the Islamic version of Missionary services. 2nd it is a tradition of our Prophet Muhammad PBUH that even when you are socializing with your closest circle of friends, before you leave ask them for forgiveness as well as we never know when we have unintentionally offended someone. >>>nawab

That is fine and very respectful as it ought to be.


Peace>>>AJ

[nawab]

Peace, mercy and blessings of God almighty

Dear Brother

1st) you claim that God needed the Jews to reject him, so that the world can be saved. I think the Jews were sacrificed rather then Jesus. What i meant was the authority of Men was transfered from one tribe to the other tribe. Like the Egyptians dominated the Tribe of Israel, so after the prayings of Israelis, God answered and brought this tribe to dominate others. However, Moses told them a prophet (Jesus) would come and they ought to take oath with him, which they didnt. so, the tribe of Israel was casted out and it went to the nearest next tribe the tribe of Ishmael. The Arabs are from the tribe of Israel. I am sure you know this. Abrahim has two sons Ishmael and Isaac.
the Jews/tribe of israel was from Jacob son of Isaac (from 12 sons of jacob e.g. Judah, Levi, Arabs were from the Tribe of Ishmael. so the dominated tribe were the Arabs, History confirms this.

By comparing Jesus as a sacrifice Lamb, I still think God is Unjust and unfair why crucify a poor man who has done nothing wrong, according to the bible any person who dies on the cross, is cursed and i refuse to beleive that my master Jesus would be cursed. and Almighty God whom i submit my will to, i cant beleive he would have done such an unjust act by sending an innocent man to die on the cross.

Moreover, if Jacob did such an act that he stole the birth right, He sinned and we are not to follow such people who sinned but we avoid them, so Jacob is an example in 3 religions i dont beleive he sinned, God does not send sinful prophet to us for guidiance, he send prophets to led us away from sin not to set examples of sin.

Brother, Jesus performed miracles in also mentioned in the Quran, He healed the Blind, Sick, Leperds and he also raised people alive with the authority of God, Miracles is not a criteria to justify a man authencity as even false Christ can perform miracles so whats great if Jesus performed. Jesus himself said in Mathew 12: 38 An audultrous wicked generation seekth after a sign.

Jesus said in Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist (Yahyah AS) : notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he (John the batist he performed no miracle yet he is being honored by Jesus)

At every prophets time, by following the Prophets commandments the Sins can be forgived by God just as the verse goes where Jesus says I am the way the truth and the light during every prophets times he was the way the truth and the light, In Moses time he was, Jesus time he was, Muhammads time he was.

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Virgin in Hebrew is Baitullah, the word in that text where it is translated a virgin shall conceive
this translation is wrong, ask any hebrew expert in the original text the word is young lady not virgin. Again this is not honest translation. Moreover, not even one place Jesus is called Immanuel.

If Jesus was GOd, when the person came to call him Good Master and he reply why Thou callest me good, If Jesus was God, He should accept because God is good. This is hipocrasy. this kind of reaction is very humanly i will call you my dear good brother and in humility you might i am not that good the real good is God, I have alot of Short commings. This was the kind of eastern Mettaphis i was talking about before, Eastern Expressions.

Having a spirit of God, is something different again we all have spirit of God, The formula of our Soul is Spirit of God.

Even today there are sins that will not allow us to enter Heaven, like Murder etc.

Jesus said Mathew 5:20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven

Back to the Gospels, of John, Mathew, Mark and Luke, We need the real word of God and not the 4 faces of Jesus. in Lukes gospel you can read that he confesses that he wrote the Gospel because he felt he is too clever and not tickled by the Holy spirit. I guess you check up here

Brother, again you claim that Jesus died so that we can go to Heaven, it makes mine and your life worthless without purpose, God does not really want to us a favor but he wants to see How faithful we are and how much obedience we are. He could have not created mankind and just sacrifice Jesus and so that all of us would be in Heaven now. Its an opinion beleive me i am not making a mockery of anyone God is bearing me witness.

Regarding Racism, i didnt mean that God is racist but rather the people who intrepretated the message this is what they want to beleive and others to beleive. under the command of Moses people were massacred in palestines inncocent people, David cut the foreskin of Philistines, Samson killed many Philistines, Shanger killed many Philistines in the bible, Samson went to Gaza and saw a harlot and he had sex with her, no punishment, no repentence and this thing is still being followed till today the special hatred of God almighty in the bible towards the Philistines.
I think the authors of the bible they hated the Palestinians.

If Jesus is the most beautiful painting, but yet a painting we still have to admire and praise the one creater who painted Jesus. for him to create Millions of Jesus is just like that,

Yet again, I express my points with the limited knowledge i have gathered, if i am wrong i am always open for corrections. May God Al mighty give you Guidiance.

i will end with a verse from the Quran 5:85 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, ’We are Christians.

[Manipulated]

i will end with a verse from the Quran 5:85 Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, ’We are Christians

. Can you please simplify this verse,I find it difficult to grasp.

[nawab]

It basiclly means, that the closet to the muslims in faith are thouse you call themselves Christians, Jews & Pagans have always been against us. We can see today and even during the time of our Prophet. The Pagens of Mecca were the strongest enemy of the Muslims and when Our Prophet migrated to Medina the strongest enemies were the Jews. When the Muslims were Persectuted the Prophet ordered the Mulsims to go to Absyinnia (Modern Ethopia) which at that time was a Christian Kingdon. When the Muslims arrive at his court. The Christians understood our perspective of religion.

Originally Posted by Manipulated

. Can you please simplify this verse,I find it difficult to grasp.

[look3467]

JOSHUA 3:4 Yet there shall be a space between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure: come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore.

Israel’s house is yet desolate, has not yet made it to the promised land for the it says: “come not near unto it, that ye may know the way by which ye must go: for ye have not passed this way heretofore.

The space is 2,000 cubits, or 2 thousand years till they see Jesus as the Ark.
They would be on deaths side of the Jordan when they would see Jesus as the ark and the priests bearing him up.

They would recognize him as the ark the third day. From this event 29 ad they stay back 2000 cubits, or 2000 years. Till 2029 ad: is when, Israel will come to Christ.
When that happens my friend, you will see a friend in Isreal.

EZEKIEL 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live:

In other words, at that time, when Israel will see Jesus for who He is, 2029, will Israel work to whithersoever the rivers (Israel) shall come, shall live:
Meaning, peace.

Peace>>>AJ