Baha'i and Unitarian Universalism (Jesus, ritual, Earth, purification, tradition)

[arthra]

While I was aware that Emerson was a Unitarian minister who left that profession later.. he was also attracted to Swedenborg at some point but is better known as a Transcendentalist... Some of the descendents of this Transcendalism philosophy were also important figures in New England literary circles and if your still with me one of the families influenced by transcendalism was the Farmer family of New Hampshire. Sarah Farmer was acquainted with John Greenleaf Whittier, Harriet Beecher Stowe and others. Sarah Farmer later became a Baha'i later in life... Here is a thumbnail sketch of her history:

The Treaty of Portsmouth (Portsmouth Peace Treaty)

Another obvious historical connection though between Unitarians and Baha'is might I think be the Unitarian minister Howard Colby Ives. His "Portals to Freedom" is still published and read by Baha'is.

- Art

[arthra]

O.K. the bells begin to ring and I came across an interesting reference where Abdul-Baha addresses the Unitarians in America...this was around 1912:

Port Said', Egypt, July 15th, 1913.

Dear Friends:

In the notes of our brother... Mirza Mahmoud, I find a glorious
message to the Unitarians of America, which I am sure was not translated
at the time. It is the second day of the Beloved's departure from Alex-
andria for America, on March 26th or 27th, 1912. An American woman ex-
pressei her interest in the Cause, saying that she is a Unitarian and re-
questing the Master to send a message to them in the United Statea.

Then
our LORD uttered the following words:

"Convey to the Unitarians my loving greetings and say; The
most exalted aim in this creational world is the promotion of the Love
of God a-ad the establishment of good fellowship and unity amoung the peQ_
ple. This is the signal distinction between man and animal. When thou
reachest America, announce to the Unitarians:

"Glad Tidings! Glad Tidings! The Sun of Universal Love hath
darmed.

"Glad Tidings! Glad Tidingsl The Banquet of friendship and
divine association is spread.

"Glad Tidingsl Glad Tidingsl The Banner of the Kingdom of
God is unfurledl

"Glad Tidingsl Glad Tidingsl The Heavenly Spring hath
appeared!

"Glad Tidingsl Glad Tidings! The Cloud of Spiritual grace
is poring down!

"Glad Tidings! Glad Tidingsl The Trees of the Orchard of
humanity are verdant and abloom:

"Glad Tidingal Glad Tidings! The Herald of the Kingdom hath
become manifestl

"Glad Tidings! Glad Tidings! The prophecies of the Holy Books
have become fulfilleal

"Glad. Tidings! Glad Tidings'. The age of Human Protherhood is
dawning upon mankind,

"Glad Tidingsl Glad Tidingst The Century of Light and
Universal Peace hath comet

As I read these vivifying words it seemed to me they are a very
significant prelude to the enthusiastic reception given to HIM by the
Unitarians of America in-their convention in Boston.

Source:
http://www.bahai-library.com/etexts/...rabs.diary.txt

It's from Ahmad Sohrab's Diary...

[arthra]

And here's an address by Abdul-Baha to the Unitarian Conference in Boston in 1912:

PROMULGATION OF UNIVERSAL PEACE, THE

[arthra]

I was thinking about one of the points raised by "lilith" above... about the "continuous revelation" idea... Baha'is will also acknowledge that anyone can be inspired say...

Yes we have more a concept of God being behind say inspiring invention and breakthroughs but this also isn't necessarily against Unitarian ideas either... and we'll concede that Unitarians don't have to be theistic...but some are.

The other thing is that we Baha'is would say when a Prophet receives revelation from God it is qualitatively on a different order and much more intense say than if a poet or mystic may be inspired..or if you say have some insight from meditation for example.

To get an idea how intense revelation can be for a Prophet of God there are hints of the intensity of this occuring recorded by people who observed it...also the intensity and volume of revelation is much greater than say what would occur for the generality of mankind...

The Manifestations of God are for us more like catalysts that have a ripple effect that influence whole civilizations and respond to the needs of humanity.

The general inspiration we as humans experience can be part say of a tidal wave of change that could have originated with a Manifestation of God.. in other words peopel are tuned into the "spirit of the age" they live in without being fully aware that the Source of that movement is Divine say through a Manifestation...to understand that you have to have a sense of culture and historical perspective I think..

- Art

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by arthra

I was thinking about one of the points raised by "lilith" above... about the "continuous revelation" idea... Baha'is will also acknowledge that anyone can be inspired say...

Yes we have more a concept of God being behind say inspiring invention and breakthroughs but this also isn't necessarily against Unitarian ideas either... and we'll concede that Unitarians don't have to be theistic...but some are.

The other thing is that we Baha'is would say when a Prophet receives revelation from God it is qualitatively on a different order and much more intense say than if a poet or mystic may be inspired..or if you say have some insight from meditation for example.

To get an idea how intense revelation can be for a Prophet of God there are hints of the intensity of this occuring recorded by people who observed it...also the intensity and volume of revelation is much greater than say what would occur for the generality of mankind...

The Manifestations of God are for us more like catalysts that have a ripple effect that influence whole civilizations and respond to the needs of humanity.

The general inspiration we as humans experience can be part say of a tidal wave of change that could have originated with a Manifestation of God.. in other words peopel are tuned into the "spirit of the age" they live in without being fully aware that the Source of that movement is Divine say through a Manifestation...to understand that you have to have a sense of culture and historical perspective I think..

- Art

Namaste Arthra. wow, you are clearly interested in this topic. Thank you for the several informative posts. For a long time now, I've thought that we have a fair amount in common but I did not know that we had such old connection.

When I was saying that everyone can experience inspiration from God I wasn't talking about and inspiring invention or breakthrough, or even a poem or song, altho I do agree that that is divine inspiration at work. I was saying that anyone can be a prophet. In my belief system, God does not "choose" someone and speak specifically to that person. I'm not even sure how that could work if God is not a being. In my belief system God flows through all of us all of the time, sometimes stronger, sometimes weaker, depending upon the "landscape." And whether or not a prophet "hears the call" is as much due to his or her choice to respond as it is to the call itself.

Let me put it this way, for example. The Bible tells us that Moses was called to a burning bush who then told him to go to Egypt to free the Israelites. He obeyed and the rest is history. It sounds really dramatic, and I'm sure it was perceived as really dramatic. But for all we know there could have been dozens of men before Moses, to whom God called, but they refused to see the bush, refused to hear the voice (metaphorically speaking).

As for a prophet's experiences being qualitatively different or on a different order than one's average mystical experience, I don't know. I do know that some people have such experiences and brush them off. And that others have them and think that's all there is, that they're "enlightened." It takes a special person to have the experience and respond in the way that is needed at that moment in time.

From a UU/panentheistic perspective, prophethood is very much a partnership.

Does that make any sense?

According to Baha'i belief, are Martin Luther King and Gandhi prophets?

Edit:
Can I just add how much appreciate being able to have this conversation?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by arthra

I think we have similar goals... that is such things as world peace, equality of men and women and an end to racial prejudice...

Yes, of course. I do not question your commitment to social justice, but I thought our approaches are different.

Originally Posted by arthra

The following gives a historical perspective to Baha'is involved in civil rights:

"In the last decade Baha'i efforts to combat racism in American society have also greatly increased. Baha'is have long been involved in the NAACP, the Urban League, and the Civil Rights movement; in the first two they have provided local leadership. In the last decade increasing numbers of Baha'is have been asked to serve on city Human Relations Commissions; more and more local Baha'i communities are collaborating with religious and human rights groups to sponsor projects to educate the public about racism. In 1991 the National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States issued *The Vision of Race Unity,* a public statement of the Baha'i understanding of the racial challenges facing America; a campaign was initiated to give copies of it to government officials and leaders of thought. A second, more ambitious statement is in the planning stage. One result of the Baha'i Faith's growing visibility in the area of race relations was the appointment, in 1992, of a representative of the National Spiritual Assembly to the rank of Commissioner on the Martin Luther King Federal Holiday Commission."

Source:

The American Baha'i Community in the Nineties

You guys are more activist than I thought. Maybe my perspective is skewed because I get most of my "impressions" of Baha'i from an Iranian woman. She has often told me that the UUs are too activist oriented.

[Popeyesays]

Well, an Iranian Baha`i who actually lived in Iran is under a constant threat of arrest and persecution if the slightest excuse is offered. Part of the reason behind our abstention from partisan politics is the cruel fate so many Baha`i's have suffered in Iran over the last 163 years.

American Baha`i's are used to being free to express their opinions.

Regards,
Scott

[BruceDLimber]

Hi, there! :-)

Originally Posted by lilithu

According to Baha'i belief, are Martin Luther King and Gandhi prophets?

Not really, no.

They were dedicated individuals, but not prophets in any major sense, and definitely not major Divine Messengers.

Regards, :-)

Bruce