Apostasy (priest, ritual, moral, Earth, gospel)

[Trey of Diamonds]

How do you feel about Apostasy?

Growing up Baptists you hear a lot about Apostates and how horrible they are. Especially the hidden Apostates, people who go to the church but secretly do not believe in the Baptist creed. Also, the Catholic Church is so feared and hated that they are called the Great Apostasy.

Anyway, while going to the Baptist church I considered myself an Apostate yet everyone, (but me), was happy because I was there. Now that I'm a Unitarian and going to a Unitarian Universalist church I am considered a Heretic doomed to burn in hell and nobody but me is happy. Yet, according to Baptist belief, Apostates are going to burn in hell too. Seems like a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation to me. At least I'm currently in good company and likely be in the same company in the next life as well. I always did say that if Heaven was full of nothing but Baptists I'd choose to go to Hell. At least I'll know everyone there and the coffee's always hot.

[Halcyon]

Lol, good thing you got out when you did!

Doesn't sound very Christian to me. Christ ate and spoke with those people considered sinners/outsiders, he didn't shun them or condemn them to hell. Seems like the people you speak of have some quite serious spiritual and moral issues they really need to work through.

[Trey of Diamonds]

What, no Southern Baptists in the UK? Where do you get your hellfire and brimstone speeches from?

[love]

A Pastor or Priest, Rabbi or Imam have always had the power of influence. History has shown us many times that these individuals or collectives have not always been properly guided themselves. Is it their job to figure out who the apostates are? I understand judging a man who is guilty of murder, or rape or stealing and for them to called as such. But to call someone an apostate or to even think it is your affair is stepping over the line of mind your own business.

[Trey of Diamonds]

Originally Posted by love

Is it their job to figure out who the apostates are?

Many think it is, especially in the Evangelical denominations. Religion often falls to the individuals who wish only to control their fellow man, and yet, it still retains its internal message of peace. The fact that something can be used and abused by the corrupt yet retain the essence of its original meaning leads me to believe its more than just empty words and the platitudes of cruel men with ulterior motives.

[fascist_crusader]

I've gone to baptist churches since I was pre-school age, and I'd never heard the term apostasy in my life until some Mormon missionaries came to my door. The baptist churches I've been too teach sharing the love of Christ with sinners, not shunning them, and we certainly have no problem with Catholics. Sounds to me like this "baptist" church of yours isn't truly baptist, like Fred Phelps they're just using the name.

[wizanda]

Originally Posted by love

A Pastor or Priest, Rabbi or Imam have always had the power of influence. History has shown us many times that these individuals or collectives have not always been properly guided themselves. Is it their job to figure out who the apostates are? I understand judging a man who is guilty of murder, or rape or stealing and for them to called as such. But to call someone an apostate or to even think it is your affair is stepping over the line of mind your own business.

Mat 23:5-11
(5) But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
(6) And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
(7) And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
(8) But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
(9) And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
(10) Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
(11) But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Trey of Diamonds

How do you feel about Apostasy?
Growing up Baptists you hear a lot about Apostates and how horrible they are. Especially the hidden Apostates, people who go to the church but secretly do not believe in the Baptist creed. Also, the Catholic Church is so feared and hated that they are called the Great Apostasy.

You seem to be mingling two different types of apostasy here: personal apostasy, and doctrinal or church wide apostasy. Personal apostasy is "a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc." (dictionary.com) This usually comes as a result of doctrinal disagreement or personal sin. It is often a willful departure.

Church-wide apostasy is when the doctrinal system has departed from that which is proper and true. We LDS believe that the early church began its decline into general church-wide apostasy sometime around the end of the 1st century. This type of apostasy is not necessarily the result of deliberate defiance of true principles. In fact we believe that the Great Apostasy occured, in part, because false teachings "crept in unawares" and after time became part of Christian tradition. This apostasy was enabled due to the lack of authorative Apostles, who in NT times were the ones responsible for correcting false teachings.

[Trey of Diamonds]

Originally Posted by fascist_crusader

I've gone to baptist churches since I was pre-school age, and I'd never heard the term apostasy in my life until some Mormon missionaries came to my door. The baptist churches I've been too teach sharing the love of Christ with sinners, not shunning them, and we certainly have no problem with Catholics. Sounds to me like this "baptist" church of yours isn't truly baptist, like Fred Phelps they're just using the name.

Well, Baptist come in many flavors and you can't really point at one and say it isn't "really" Baptist because they aren't the same as the Baptist you prefer. From your post I would guess you have been to either American Baptist churches or some of the independant ones they have now that can be very liberal when compared to the old school Southern Baptist churchs of the Deep South. There is also the Gospel Baptists which tend to be African American and they are much more relaxed and tolerant than the rest. I'm originally from a little town just outside of Baton Rouge Louisiana and our Baptists can be pretty intense.

Views on Apostasy in the Baptist chuch can differ from congregation to congregation even down here. The church I grew up going to didn't bring it up often and when it did it was in vauge terms. But I once visited a church that my brother was going to and they were very vocal about not falling into Apostasy. You had to truely believe and accept Christ and follow the creed or, by God, you were headed on a downward spiral straight into the firey pits of Hell. Sitting in the pew wasn't enough, you had to believe or you were guilty of the sin of Apostasy! This always bothered me because it was a "believe as I believe or else" kind of statement and I don't like ultimatums.

[Trey of Diamonds]

Originally Posted by Polaris

You seem to be mingling two different types of apostasy here

Guilty.

I think the Witnesses believe in the Great Apostasy as well but I don't know if they call it that or see it in the same terms as LDS.