God? What is God? (Jesus, punishment, reject, Creator, Earth)

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by rasor

No,the proof is in the evidence and as there is no evidence there's no proof.

There's a thousand times more evidence that God exists than that He doesn't.

Atoms don't create themselves and they certainly don't create the laws that govern themselves then somehow give life to themselves.

[rasor]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

There's a thousand times more evidence that God exists than that He doesn't.

Atoms don't create themselves and they certainly don't create the laws that govern themselves then somehow give life to themselves.

If there's proof show it to me.Just because science does not answer every question about the universe doesn't automatically mean there's a god.This is a tactic used by the god addled for centries.Its called the GOD GAP .But as science advances the gap gets smaller and smaller. Also I don't have to prove god doesn't exist.Its YOUR premis that he/it exists so its upto you to prove it.

[Super Universe]

It's not up to me to prove anything to you. You made a claim that you cannot prove and I made a claim I cannot prove yet in your twisted logic only I have to provide proof?

I cannot force God's hand. Why should He, or I, prove God to you?

Also, the proof is in the pudding. What, you think pudding creates itself?

I will tell you this, since there is no way that either of us can prove our concept we should look for the reason we have chosen to believe what we do. I know my reason, what's yours?

[rasor]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

It's not up to me to prove anything to you. You made a claim that you cannot prove and I made a claim I cannot prove yet in your twisted logic only I have to provide proof?

The only claim I made was you couldn't produce any proof.Looks like I'm right .

[Super Universe]

Sigh... you claimed there is no evidence but as I have said many times, the universe is the evidence.

So much for you being right.

[rasor]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

Sigh... you claimed there is no evidence but as I have said many times, the universe is the evidence.

So much for you being right.

Sigh,just pronouncing that the universe is evidence because you say so is nieve in the extreme (excuse spelling) If the universe is indeed evidence please explain how ??

Notice that there is no scientific evidence


There is no scientific evidence indicating that God exists. We all know that. For example:

• God has never left any physical evidence of his existence on earth.
• None of Jesus' "miracles" left any physical evidence either.

God has never spoken to modern man, for example by taking over all the television stations and broadcasting a rational message to everyone.

• The resurrected Jesus has never appeared to anyone.
• The Bible we have is provably incorrect and is obviously the work of primitive men rather than God.
• When we analyze prayer with statistics, we find no evidence that God is "answering prayers."
• Huge, amazing atrocities like the Holocaust and AIDS occur without any response from God.
• And so on…

Let's agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that God exists.

If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. In addition we know that:

1. If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".
2. If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.
3. If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.

(cribbed from a web site called http://www.godisimaginary.com/i11.htm)

[Super Universe]

Some say that if you take all the pieces of a complex watch and eternally toss them into the air that they will assemble themselves back together and form the watch again. But this is impossible and does not account for the fact that the universe didn't have an eternity to form correctly, it had to do it right the first time and in a precise order!

If the universe attempted to form but failed there is no second chance. Game over!

The probability that a system as complex as the universe could form itself with such incredible precision and in an exact order is far, far, beyond impossible.

For me, the fact that the universe is a creation of God is not disputable whatsoever but then, I didn't have a choice in the matter.

For an atheist this same fact is eternally disputable because it is not something they want to see. They don't want to give up their freedom and individuality, and some atheists are just plain angry because they weren't born rich or because their daddy didn't give them enough attention or whatever.

All of this proof that you want is already in the science books.

[PureX]

I have no idea what God is, but I choose to believe that the effect of "God" in my world is love, and forgiveness, and peace, and tolerance, and generosity. These effects are real enough. And until I know differently, I will continue to presume these effects to be of a divine nature. And I will do this because doing it makes my life better, and makes me a better person. I don't have to know God to choose God. All I have to know is the effect of choosing God.

[rasor]

Some say that if you take all the pieces of a complex watch and eternally toss them into the air that they will assemble themselves back together and form the watch again. But this is impossible and does not account for the fact that the universe didn't have an eternity to form correctly, it had to do it right the first time and in a precise order!
Really? and how do you know how much time was required ? and how do you know what is a correct universe ?

If the universe attempted to form but failed there is no second chance. Game over!

Again, How do you know this ?

The probability that a system as complex as the universe could form itself with such incredible precision and in an exact order is far, far, beyond impossible.

Again Who says its impossible ?

For me, the fact that the universe is a creation of God is not disputable whatsoever but then, I didn't have a choice in the matter.

Yes,but thats just you saying it.Your opinion is not proof.

For an atheist this same fact is eternally disputable because it is not something they want to see. They don't want to give up their freedom and individuality, and some atheists are just plain angry because they weren't born rich or because their daddy didn't give them enough attention or whatever.

Again,just your opinion without a shred of proof.

All of this proof that you want is already in the science books.

OK,so assuming its "in the science books" please show me a link to a relative science book .

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

Some say that if you take all the pieces of a complex watch and eternally toss them into the air that they will assemble themselves back together and form the watch again. But this is impossible and does not account for the fact that the universe didn't have an eternity to form correctly, it had to do it right the first time and in a precise order!

That's looking at it backwards and upside down, though. More accurate to say that the precise order it was done in was the first time it was done, for us. We are not "right" for the universe, nor it for us; rather we are the universe that is right. It can't not be right, for us.

Originally Posted by Super Universe

The probability that a system as complex as the universe could form itself with such incredible precision and in an exact order is far, far, beyond impossible.

Only if you hold up the finished result as the goal of the development; but it wasn't.