My agreement with god. (moral, Creator, Earth, paradise, contradiction)

St0ne · #1 01-18-2007, 08:34 PM

I live in a christian country, was brought up on christian values although not forced into christianity by virtue of where I was born christianity has been imprinted on my persona.

I am a Buddhist, atheistic towards the abrahamic god of christ\islam\etc and polytheistic religions, agnostic although doubtful to other ideas of god.

Last night I read a most of an account by Bill Wiese of his alleged 23 minutes in Hell, although I do not believe in Hell to be 100% honest it still managed to stir some fear inside me. The account to me like the bible is not without it's flaws and contradictions but ignoring the lack of credibility to the story I cannot ignore how it made me feel. So last night I made an agreement with all gods. With all my heart I ask that they judge me not by my belief or lack there of in them but by how I live my life as it is not in my heart to believe in them as forgiveness, to repent or any other such things that will apparantly secure my ticket to heaven. It is something I can not do no matter how much I tried or wanted to, it is simply not in me.

For a moment I've ignored all that I do believe in, that I have no soul, hold the key to my own liberation and the very fact that life is suffering and so hell can really be found anywhere. Now all I can do is live as I see fit which is the only honest way I can live, My Buddhist beliefs are honest so I ask for mercy from any god who would send me to hell as I feel I best live honestly, to be the only truely godly way to live.

Katzpur · #2 01-18-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St0ne

I live in a christian country, was brought up on christian values although not forced into christianity by virtue of where I was born christianity has been imprinted on my persona.

I am a Buddhist, atheistic towards the abrahamic god of christ\islam\etc and polytheistic religions, agnostic although doubtful to other ideas of god.

Last night I read a most of an account by Bill Wiese of his alleged 23 minutes in Hell, although I do not believe in Hell to be 100% honest it still managed to stir some fear inside me. The account to me like the bible is not without it's flaws and contradictions but ignoring the lack of credibility to the story I cannot ignore how it made me feel. So last night I made an agreement with all gods. With all my heart I ask that they judge me not by my belief or lack there of in them but by how I live my life as it is not in my heart to believe in them as forgiveness, to repent or any other such things that will apparantly secure my ticket to heaven. It is something I can not do no matter how much I tried or wanted to, it is simply not in me.

For a moment I've ignored all that I do believe in, that I have no soul, hold the key to my own liberation and the very fact that life is suffering and so hell can really be found anywhere. Now all I can do is live as I see fit which is the only honest way I can live, My Buddhist beliefs are honest so I ask for mercy from any god who would send me to hell as I feel I best live honestly, to be the only truely godly way to live.

Hi, St0ne.

Wow! Your post really got to me. Even though I do believe in the Abrahamic God, I have always believed that the most He can and does expect of us is to live our lives with integrity. To me, that means adhering to whatever standard of moral conduct you sincerely believe to be right. I simply cannot imagine that He will not be merciful or that He will use our honest but misguided intentions against us. Somehow, I am confident that I'm right about that. I don't even see Him condemning those who don't recognize Him as their God. From where I'm standing, He's not that petty. Every single solitary one of us is in the position of having to choose whatever path seems right to us. None of us can see past the grave. We simply have to do the best we can and leave it up to God to respond to our efforts with His perfect love. I don't worry for one minute that He won't do that.

Katz

St0ne · #3 01-18-2007, 09:12 PM

If there is a god I think you are right but it's not something I can really concern myself with to much because regardless I can only follow the path I have chosen. I was directed to the account by a christian who obviously doesn't feel the same as you or I.

Sunstone · #4 01-18-2007, 09:51 PM

The purpose of life is to play a cosmic shell game in which we guess under which shell is paradise and under which is hell? That seems to reduce the purpose of life to an absurdity. Perhaps even a con game.

Buttercup · #5 01-18-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St0ne

Last night I read a most of an account by Bill Wiese of his alleged 23 minutes in Hell, although I do not believe in Hell to be 100% honest it still managed to stir some fear inside me. The account to me like the bible is not without it's flaws and contradictions but ignoring the lack of credibility to the story I cannot ignore how it made me feel.

Hi Stone,

I have not read this story of Bill Wiese and his trip to hell. Would you mind summarizing it for us please? Sounds interesting.

St0ne · #6 01-18-2007, 10:13 PM

http://www.spiritlessons.com/Documen...nHell_Text.htm

This is the link to the text and mp3's

Buttercup · #7 01-18-2007, 10:40 PM

Thanks for the link, Stone.

I read through most of the page after skipping over the scripture and I have to say that I was unconvinced of the authenticity of his story. It seems to me that he simply had a dream or this is something he made up to sell a book.

This type of propaganda is one of the reasons I left Christianity recently. Why would God need to instill fear in people to come to him? Why would a gracious and loving God want to scare people to him? It has to be much more gratifying to a God to have people come to him completely free of all guilt and fear. Who would want someone to follow them because they were scared into it? A dictator perhaps.

Please don't let this story worry you for one more second. It's my thought that there is no such place as hell. With all the religious choices we humans have on earth....for a God to punish us to hell for choosing the wrong one makes no sense. Most of us are simply trying to do our best with zero visits from a creator. The only "proof" we have of a creator is from the mouths of others. Surely we can't be condemned for that.

St0ne · #8 01-18-2007, 11:13 PM

I totally agree with you Buttercup, Thanks.

St0ne · #9 01-18-2007, 11:46 PM

He is what I wrote to the person who directed me to the the site and his reply.

Thanks, although I'm a no believer in both Hell and God, this story did stir some fear in me. Unfortunatley no matter how much I wanted or tried to I can not honestley do what is required of me to quarantee my ticket to heaven, it is simply not in my heart. And I think it would be foolish to not follow what is in my heart, don't you agree?

his Reply

mmm, not sure I do agree. First of all, everybody who goes to hell regrets it. There is a second testimonial on that site of a woman who was taken on a "tour" of hell which took three days. Ive also heard her storey and there she saw many people, even people who believed in the existence of God, who were desparate to get out of Hell but had no way out.

If you can open up your heart enough to consider the possibility of a God existing, then thats a start. If you earnestly seek God with all of your heart, then He will show himself to you by his own means.

For me, God manifested himself one day when I prayed for healing in my sprained wrist, and within an hour I was healed. This was at a major christian gathering in Sydney, and I have heard many reports of healings happening everywhere else - miracles that only God could do.

God, who created you and I, and who loved you before you were even born, doesnt want any of his people to go to hell. hell is a place for sinners, for people who rejected their creator. And nor do I wish for even my worst enemies to have to endure Hell.

being saved from Hell involves repenting of your sin and achknowledging Jesus as your Lord and saviour. I urge that you think about that. Id also urge you to consider the sheer significance of the fact that nobody dies and simply rots, like 1shot1kill suggests in one of my threads. We all live eternally, and what we do on Earth determines whether we live a glorious life with God in heaven, or whether we become separated from God by our sins and live a torturous life in hell, which seems so bad I hate to think about it.