Messianic Jew versus Christian (Messiah, theist, Jewish, Christianity, Christians)

[Victor]

Originally Posted by jewscout

not by their standards perhaps...
but there is a difference between differing views on Torah and Halachah...and out right accepting something which is theologically a totally different faith and view on G-d.

Then I'm assuming (and you can correct me on this) that all the different Judaic movements are seperated by Torah and Halachah differences and not theological ones. That correct? And if that's the case I am ever so curious as to what "theological" means to you...

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Djamila

I think he meants Jews for Jesus have no historical connection to the Jewish faith, ethnicity, or heritage. They're just Bob Brown from Arkansas who decided he's a Messianic Jew instead of a Christian two years ago?

yes and no

[Victor]

Originally Posted by jewscout

lol they aren't...i isolate Jews4Jesus because they are far more aggressive in their attempts at converting jews to christianity than maybe some others who take on the mantle of "messianic judaism"

Then how does your answer on post# 11 follow? You got me all twisted Huffster.

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Victor

Then I'm assuming (and you can correct me on this) that all the different Judaic movements are seperated by Torah and Halachah differences and not theological ones. That correct? And if that's the case I am ever so curious as to what "theological" means to you...

sort of...i'll describe it to you the way it was described to me...
in regards to the 3 major movements of judaism...
imagine it's like a bike wheel, with G-d as the center and the jewish people as the wheel and Torah and Mitzvot are the spokes that connect the 2...depending on which group you are a part of dictates what spokes can be removed, if they can be removed at all and whether or not additional, custom based, practices should be kept.

Messianic Judaism is theologically Christianity...it includes holidays and jewish practices, of course, but it's beliefs and ideas on G-d are, at it's foundation, based on a Christian view...not a jewish one. It's ideas on the role of Messiah are christian ones, not jewish ones.

does that make more sense??

[jewscout]

Originally Posted by Victor

Then how does your answer on post# 11 follow? You got me all twisted Huffster.

what Mila was asking is if someone takes on the mantle of being a "messianic jew" does that mean they are somehow ethnically jewish but theologically christian?

i said that basically sometimes yes, sometimes no they aren't jewish in any way especially in the case of the organization known as Jews4Jesus.

[Victor]

sort of...i'll describe it to you the way it was described to me...
in regards to the 3 major movements of judaism...
imagine it's like a bike wheel, with G-d as the center and the jewish people as the wheel and Torah and Mitzvot are the spokes that connect the 2...depending on which group you are a part of dictates what spokes can be removed, if they can be removed at all and whether or not additional, custom based, practices should be kept.

I guess I'm just not following how there can sort of be theological differences. There either is, or there isn't, no? If the spokes aren't theological differences, then what's all the fuss?

Originally Posted by jewscout

Messianic Judaism is theologically Christianity...it includes holidays and jewish practices, of course, but it's beliefs and ideas on G-d are, at it's foundation, based on a Christian view...not a jewish one. It's ideas on the role of Messiah are christian ones, not jewish ones.

I gotcha here.

Originally Posted by jewscout

does that make more sense??

Kinda.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by jewscout

what Mila was asking is if someone takes on the mantle of being a "messianic jew" does that mean they are somehow ethnically jewish but theologically christian?

i said that basically sometimes yes, sometimes no they aren't jewish in any way especially in the case of the organization known as Jews4Jesus.

You mean there is non-Jews part of the Jews4Jesus camp?

[Djamila]

Thanks for your discussion guys!

[ssrt]

Originally Posted by Djamila

Okay, I have another question.

When someone says they are a Messianic Jew, is it probably they mean they're from a Jewish ethnic/cultural background, but religiously Christian?

Yes, that's basically it.

Some messianic Jews, however, have no Jewish heritage at all.

[ssrt]

I, from a purely Jewish perspective, consider Messianic Jews to be entirely Christian. I still consider all Messianic Jews with a Jewish mother to be Jews, but they are 100% theologically Christian. Acceptance of the Holy Trinity, and distortion of the existing Jewish festivals and traditions to fit into a Christian setting is not Judaism. THeir beliefs are completely Christian.