What would it take? (ritual, followers, Revelation, spiritual, Christianity)

[Buttons*]

I was thinking about several things the other day. I know it's hard to follow my thought process at times, but I thought i'd present this anyway. These are just the thoughts I had leading up to the question I'm going to ask. I'll highlight the question:

When it comes to Christianity, why do people sometimes follow Paul instead of Yeshua? Wouldn't it be more rational to only follow the people who knew Yeshua first hand?

Because if people to follow others who have had divine revelation... I think the last person that was able to do it and get a decent following was Joseph Smith... (I could be mistaken though)... why do we believe some and not others. Especially when some Christians believe Paul's works to be the most reliable.

So from there I asked myself when people stopped believing others who claimed to have recieved messages from God. When people say "I have a message from God"... generally they're called crazy and sent on their way.

My question: What would it take for someone to claim divine revelation? What kind of proof would one need to have in order to convince others that they were not crazy?

[FatMan]

I need to ask a qualifying question -

What if they serve me Kool-aid which causes me to believe them, assuming it isn't cyanatic Kool-Aid?

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by FatMan

I need to ask a qualifying question -

What if they serve me Kool-aid which causes me to believe them, assuming it isn't cyanatic Kool-Aid?

*shrug* well i guess if one can be pursuaded by kool aid, all the better for them

[Revasser]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

My question: What would it take for someone to claim divine revelation?

A will and a motive (which could be anything from a desire to make money and accrue power to a genuine belief that one is receiving divine revelation). A confidence in one's oratory and/or literary skill would probably help.

What kind of proof would one need to have in order to convince others that they were not crazy?

A few devoted followers and the passage of time would be enough.

Edit: Actually.. are we to be assuming this person actually IS receiving divine revelation, or just that they want others to think they are?

[YmirGF]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

My question:

Originally Posted by Buttons*

What would it take for someone to claim divine revelation? What kind of proof would one need to have in order to convince others that they were not crazy?

That is very simple for me Ashley. IF anyone claims to have a "revelation" from "God" I would immediately be suspect. There is little that they COULD do to prove their claim to me, as in my view, they have already shot themselves in the feet to begin with. Frankly speaking, it is only the "spiritual novices" that see reality in this way. As you might guess, I'm not a big fan of so-called "revelation".

Some considerations though:

If said person could "read" my mind and tell me what I was thinking, exactly.
If said person could predict future events with great accuracy, in a clear, straightforward manner, with little or no mistakes.
If said person could walk on water.
If said person could levitate at will.
If said person could appear and disappear, at will.
If said person could cause excitation of every atom of my being just by their mere presence. (Contact ecstasy?)
If said person could manifest their “dream body” so that it is visible to the naked eye, and in effect, stand beside themselves.

Ohhhh... and they would have to be able to spell and form grammatically correct sentences. Knowledge of math and other basics would also be a boon.

In essence, if such a person could demonstrate a bending of physical laws, I would likely sit up and grab both my camera and my notebook. Otherwise I would simply chuckle and walk away.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

My question: What would it take for someone to claim divine revelation? What kind of proof would one need to have in order to convince others that they were not crazy?

If they manifest unconditional love that would get my attention.

[Revasser]

Originally Posted by YmirGF

Some considerations though:

If said person could "read" my mind and tell me what I was thinking, exactly.
If said person could predict future events with great accuracy, in a clear, straightforward manner, with little or no mistakes.
If said person could walk on water.
If said person could levitate at will.
If said person could appear and disappear, at will.
If said person could cause excitation of every atom of my being just by their mere presence. (Contact ecstasy?)
If said person could manifest their “dream body” so that it is visible to the naked eye, and in effect, stand beside themselves.

Sounds like you're after the full demi-god regalia there, Ymir.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

Because if people to follow others who have had divine revelation... I think the last person that was able to do it and get a decent following was Joseph Smith... (I could be mistaken though)...

I'm not sure how many members there are in LDS, but just FYI the Baha'i Faith has its beginnings around the same time, and there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 million of us, last time I looked anyway. There were maybe a million when I joined a couple decades or so ago.

We're also the 2nd most widespread religion, with Islam running a distant third (and Christianity first, of course). That figure suggests that we are able to attract people from pretty much every culture on the planet, and it's not just a "niche" thing with an appeal only to certain cultures.

Your question is an interesting one, but I'll have to ponder it some more before replying directly.

[Booko]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

If they manifest unconditional love that would get my attention.

It would get mine as well.

But as a practical matter, how might we tell the difference between someone who claims a revelation and someone who is more like what we'd call a saint (assuming they both pass the unconditional love test, of course)?