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  #1  
Old 12-05-2005, 02:12 PM
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cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'
Default Belief in God but not Jesus?

How would you classify a person who has a belief in God, but not necessarily in Jesus? Or, that there was a person named Jesus who taught about God, but not necessarily that Jesus was the savior?

Would you classify that as Jewish?

I ask because this is kind of where I feel I am leaning. I believe in a kind, gentle, and loving God. I believe there was a man named Jesus who was a great leader and teacher of peace and God, and that he was actually crucified. But I don't know if I believe in the Resurrection. I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm just saying I don't know.

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but I know people of the Jewish faith believe Jesus was not the savior, also. But it is also my understanding that the Jewish God is the one of the Old Testament -- the vengeful, wrathful, jealous God. That's not how I picture Him.

Which leads me to my problem. I don't know where/how to worship. I can't really go to any Christian church, because Christianity is based off the teachings of Jesus, and they believe Jesus was resurrected.

I wouldn't consider myself Jewish because I don't believe that God is vengeful and that strict, either.

Anyone have any thoughts?

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with any incorrect knowledge on the subjects above.
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2005, 02:15 PM
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How would you classify a person who has a belief in God, but not necessarily in Jesus? Or, that there was a person named Jesus who taught about God, but not necessarily that Jesus was the savior?
Unitarian Universalist?
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2005, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfer
How would you classify a person who has a belief in God, but not necessarily in Jesus? Or, that there was a person named Jesus who taught about God, but not necessarily that Jesus was the savior?

Would you classify that as Jewish?

I ask because this is kind of where I feel I am leaning. I believe in a kind, gentle, and loving God. I believe there was a man named Jesus who was a great leader and teacher of peace and God, and that he was actually crucified. But I don't know if I believe in the Resurrection. I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm just saying I don't know.

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but I know people of the Jewish faith believe Jesus was not the savior, also. But it is also my understanding that the Jewish God is the one of the Old Testament -- the vengeful, wrathful, jealous God. That's not how I picture Him.

Which leads me to my problem. I don't know where/how to worship. I can't really go to any Christian church, because Christianity is based off the teachings of Jesus, and they believe Jesus was resurrected.

I wouldn't consider myself Jewish because I don't believe that God is vengeful and that strict, either.

Anyone have any thoughts?

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with any incorrect knowledge on the subjects above.
It depends upon what you mean as "resurrection". I believe that the Spirit of Christ appeared to His followers in whatever body God pleased to make it manifest. As to the physical remains of Christ - what does it matter. There was another even MORE important resurrection that day. I'll let Abdu'l Baha explain it:
"THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST
Question. -- What is the meaning of Christ's resurrection after three days?
Answer. -- The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things. For example, there is the subject of Christ's coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven. So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written: "For I came down from heaven"; and also in verse 42 we find: "And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?" Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
Observe that it is said, "The Son of man is in heaven," while at that time Christ was on earth. Notice also that it is said that Christ came from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born of Mary. It is clear, then, that when it is said that the Son of man is come from heaven, this has not an outward but an inward signification; it is a spiritual, not a material, fact. The meaning is that though, apparently, Christ was born from 104 the womb of Mary, in reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from the Divine World, and the Spiritual Kingdom. And as it has become evident that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the Divine Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has an inner signification and is not an outward fact. In the same way, His resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is a spiritual and divine fact, and not material; and likewise His ascension to heaven is a spiritual and not material ascension.
Beside these explanations, it has been established and proved by science that the visible heaven is a limitless area, void and empty, where innumerable stars and planets revolve.
Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ's resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.
Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the Gospels nor comprehended 105 the symbols, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it"
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 104)

Regards,
Scott
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2005, 02:22 PM
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cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maize
Unitarian Universalist?
But there aren't any UU churches around where I live.

I like the idea of prayer beads for aiding a person's focus for prayer and meditation. But I don't want to be sacrilegious and step on someone else's beliefs.

I like singing hymns and listening to church music, but not sitting through long sermons.

I am a fan of ritual and believe a person's religion should incorporate it somehow. But everything I've ever learned is based on Christian (especially Lutheran) ritual.

Argh...I'm just really confused about things right now.
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2005, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfer
How would you classify a person who has a belief in God, but not necessarily in Jesus? Or, that there was a person named Jesus who taught about God, but not necessarily that Jesus was the savior?

Would you classify that as Jewish?

I ask because this is kind of where I feel I am leaning. I believe in a kind, gentle, and loving God. I believe there was a man named Jesus who was a great leader and teacher of peace and God, and that he was actually crucified. But I don't know if I believe in the Resurrection. I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm just saying I don't know.

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but I know people of the Jewish faith believe Jesus was not the savior, also. But it is also my understanding that the Jewish God is the one of the Old Testament -- the vengeful, wrathful, jealous God. That's not how I picture Him.

Which leads me to my problem. I don't know where/how to worship. I can't really go to any Christian church, because Christianity is based off the teachings of Jesus, and they believe Jesus was resurrected.

I wouldn't consider myself Jewish because I don't believe that God is vengeful and that strict, either.

Anyone have any thoughts?

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with any incorrect knowledge on the subjects above.
I may be comletely wrong, but I think you might be in the 'Islamic' camp (allah, or God).

Don't let Maize bully you into UU; I thinks she gets paid comission on recruits.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2005, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by michel
Don't let Maize bully you into UU; I thinks she gets paid comission on recruits.
Shhh!
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Old 12-05-2005, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cfer
But there aren't any UU churches around where I live.
IF Unitarian Universalism is something you are wanting to look into, let me suggest the Church of the Larger Fellowship, which is for those UUs and people interested in being UUs who cannot attend a UU church.
Quote:
I like the idea of prayer beads for aiding a person's focus for prayer and meditation. But I don't want to be sacrilegious and step on someone else's beliefs.
That sounds like a wonderful way to focus prayer and meditation, and I would think that anyone who knew you did it for that reason would not be offended no matter what religion you are.
Quote:
I like singing hymns and listening to church music, but not sitting through long sermons.
Me too.
Quote:
I am a fan of ritual and believe a person's religion should incorporate it somehow. But everything I've ever learned is based on Christian (especially Lutheran) ritual.
Ritual is important to humans, be it religious ritual or just things we do in everyday life. I think you should find something that has meaning to you and what is important to you. I grew up on Christian ritual too. So the fact that most UU churches have the same ritualistic structure of a Christian service is comforting to me. But being a UU, I also like incorporating rituals from other religions that have meaning to me, and even making my own rituals, and all of that is OK.
Quote:
Argh...I'm just really confused about things right now.
I think we've all been at that point, at least once. Hang in there and be true to your beliefs, even if you're not quite sure what those are yet.
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  #8  
Old 12-05-2005, 05:08 PM
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Judaism is a great deal more than Christianity without Jesus, I'd just like to point out. So, no, by the sound of it you're more good ol' plain theistic. Being a Jew isn't something you default back to, it's something you are. Now, I rather like Judaism as a religion, and people would be happy to talk to you about it at a local synagogue, I'm sure. Sounds like you might like UU. Try doing some research while you think about things and see what you like best.

So, just to point out, not all Jews believe G-d is the way He's depicted in the OT. Some do, some don't. Some, in fact, believe Him to be a kind, gentle, and loving G-d. Judaism now has changed a bit since the Judaism of several thousand years ago.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2005, 07:34 AM
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cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'cfer says, with a twinkle, 'A frubal is 1 part hug, 1 part smile, and a dash of partially hydrogenated soybean oil'
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That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure, because I haven't done much research on it. I'm sorry if I offended you. I should have done a little more research before I spoke. I'm sorry.

Maize, thank you for the link. I'm going to check into UU some more.
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Old 12-06-2005, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfer
How would you classify a person who has a belief in God, but not necessarily in Jesus? Or, that there was a person named Jesus who taught about God, but not necessarily that Jesus was the savior?

Would you classify that as Jewish?
This could be a member of virtually any religion other than Christianity, Islam, or Baha'i!

MANY groups qualify: Jewish, Sabaeans, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and Buddhists to name just a few.

Regards,

Bruce
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