Is a bible enough ? (Jesus, moral, tradition, beliefs, churches)

[Terrywoodenpic]

If you had been brought up totally away from religion, to the extent you did not even know what it was………. then one day you were given a Bible………………



1)What would you make of it?

2)Could you derive a coherent a religion from it?

3)What importance would you think it gives to Jesus?

4)Would you think it was fact? History? Fable? Or mainly parable?

5)Would you find the overall message to be about a stern and vengeful God? Or about the Love and Freedom and forgiveness that God gives?



6)Would you decide you needed help to interpret it?





Some modern Churches have taken the view that the Bible is enough on its own.



I contend it needs to be placed in context. That it needs reference to years of study about how the people of the time thought, worshiped, lived their lives and communicated with each other. How other religions before it were an influence on the writers. How the sexual mores of the time and the relationship of the sexes to each other influenced their views.



It also needs an understanding of how the teachings have been interpreted though the ages, from the time of the apostles to now.



It needs the “baggage” as some people see it, of the tradition, learning and continuing fellowship of established Religion.



Only then can you read the Bible and with the help of prayer, have any hope to derive its true message.



Terry
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Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

[michel]

From my own situation, if someone left me alone with a Bible, without explaing what it was all about, I think I would be very confused, put it down after a while, and maybe try again later.

No way would I be able to see it for what it is without help......Heck, even with the internet and sites that debate various parts of the Bible, I get confused enough.

[Katzpur]

Hi, Terry.

Very good questions, all of them!

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

If you had been brought up totally away from religion, to the extent you did not even know what it was………. then one day you were given a Bible………………

1)What would you make of it?

I would probably find it quite confusing. I would go from being bored to tears to being fascinated to being awestruck to being deeply touched and then back to boredom, over and over again.

2)Could you derive a coherent a religion from it?

Absolutely not. At least not without a great imagination.

3)What importance would you think it gives to Jesus?

Lots! His life and teachings constitute the entire New Testament. It would be pretty much impossible to gloss over them.

4)Would you think it was fact? History? Fable? Or mainly parable?

I don't know for sure that it would be possible to say. But that would be the case with any book. If someone were to hand me a non-fictional book -- "Not Without My Daugher" immediately comes to mind -- and didn't tell me that it was a true story, I would have no way of knowing, from just reading it. If I were told upfront that the Bible was fact, I think I could accept that, for the most part. I'm sure there would probably be some parts that I'd consider to be either fable or parable.

5)Would you find the overall message to be about a stern and vengeful God? Or about the Love and Freedom and forgiveness that God gives?

Well, if I were to read through both the Old and New Testaments, I would probably have to come away with the feeling that God loves me and has provided me with a way to return to His presence someday. I'd be pretty much overwhelmed by Jesus' sacrifice.

6)Would you decide you needed help to interpret it?

It certainly would come in handy!

Some modern Churches have taken the view that the Bible is enough on its own.

Yes, they do. Interestingly, they aren't able to support such a thesis using only the Bible as evidence.

I contend it needs to be placed in context. That it needs reference to years of study about how the people of the time thought, worshiped, lived their lives and communicated with each other. How other religions before it were an influence on the writers. How the sexual mores of the time and the relationship of the sexes to each other influenced their views.

I agree with you on all of these points, but I believe we need one thing more. (You'll disagree, no doubt.) I think we need a living prophet, someone who communicates with God in exactly the same way as did the prophets of old, someone who can state authoritatively how God wants us to understand His word. I don't think a degree from a divinity college qualifies someone to assume this responsibility, but I think it's essential that such a person exist. People will argue, "Well, we have the Holy Spirit." Sure we do, and that's a great blessing. But just how did we end up with 30,000+ different Christian denominations, the vast majority of them basing their beliefs on the Bible alone?

It also needs an understanding of how the teachings have been interpreted though the ages, from the time of the apostles to now.

How the teachings have been interpreted through the ages is, in my opinion, pretty much pointless unless those teachings have been interpreted correctly. What difference does it make to know how the mainstream Christian understanding of the nature of God developed unless the mainstream understanding of the nature of God is accurate? I'd say that having living Apostles would be a much more reliable way of understanding the teachings found in the Bible.

It needs the “baggage” as some people see it, of the tradition, learning and continuing fellowship of established Religion.

Yeah, I'd pretty much agree that most of these things are, indeed, "baggage." If tradition is based on fact, that's one thing. But tradition for the sake of tradition is something else entirely. And the continuing fellowship of established religion can't even begin to compare to continuing revelation from God.

Only then can you read the Bible and with the help of prayer, have any hope to derive its true message.

Ah, yes... prayer. Glad you mentioned that. It's an absolutely essential component.

Kathryn

[Terrywoodenpic]

Katzpur Thanks for that.
Your answers are exactly as I would expect fron a Believing LDS. And I can't
go against that.
Terry
________________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

Katzpur Thanks for that.
Your answers are exactly as I would expect fron a Believing LDS. And I can't
go against that.

Yeah, I know... I'm pretty predictable. So, since we agreed on everything up to where I stressed the need for living prophets and apostles and divurged at that point, why don't you explain why you think they're no longer necessary. Then I can give you another predictable response and we can go on from there.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Yeah, I know... I'm pretty predictable. So, since we agreed on everything up to where I stressed the need for living prophets and apostles and divurged at that point, why don't you explain why you think they're no longer necessary. Then I can give you another predictable response and we can go on from there.

In the main I think the bishops and clergy fill that role in many churches as they have done all along.
However as usual I hold a slightly heretical view. That God uses many men as Prophets to guide us in our thinking, perhaps as often as we pray he is imparting something to guide us personally or to trigger a response in others.

As far as the Bible goes, it was written in ancient times and can not be fully understood in terms of today. Too many things we know to day were not relevant or known in those days. But what we can learn from the Bible is our moral values and the structure on which to make decisions and on which to base our lives.

Terry
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Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic

1)What would you make of it?

Too much reading.

2)Could you derive a coherent a religion from it?

Yes

3)What importance would you think it gives to Jesus?

It is His autobiography. He is on every page.

4)Would you think it was fact? History? Fable? Or mainly parable?

Fact

5)Would you find the overall message to be about a stern and vengeful God? Or about the Love and Freedom and forgiveness that God gives?

Not sure --- hopefully the latter.

6)Would you decide you needed help to interpret it?

Yes

Some modern Churches have taken the view that the Bible is enough on its own.

Mine included --- the Bible is self-verifying and self-explanatory.[/quote]