Can drugs be used for religious experiences? (ritual, virtual, America)

[Cr0wley]

I have been tempted to try mushrooms on a few occasions now, but not just for the trip. I have read of many shamans using it as a tool for achieving "other-worldly knowlage". Even modern stories of people on mushrooms say that they've never looked at the world the same way again, that they feel more connected to their "higher power" after a good trip.

What are your opinions?

[Druidus]

The only drugs I would utilize for the purposes of a spiritual journey would be those used by shamans for the same.

Want my opinion? Get Salvia Divinorum (The Divine Sage). Legal (besides Australia and one other country. Legal in the U.S. and Canada for sure.), and cheaper than mushrooms/marijuana. Used by the Mazatec and other South Americans for centuries, and much better than some other drugs.

You don't smoke it, but you suck on it, in a quid, which goes under your tongue. Some people add some honey, because it's not known for it's taste, but it's twenty times better than anything else, and is unique among such drugs, in that it has a chemical signiture different from any other drug.

Hold on, and I'll get you some links.

[Fat Old Sun]

I've done the Peyote Ceremony while visiting some relatives in New Mexico.

The experience is a little different for everyone. It actually confirmed my desire to leave behind religion all together. I did not feel empty as many might suspect by my previous comment. I felt like man has his priorities completely out of order. Nobody here has figured it out yet was the impression it left me with.

How can putting on a tie on sunday morning and throwing 10% of your paycheck in a plate put you above anyone else when you ignore the death and destruction that occurrs every day just because it's not in your back yard? People kill in the name of their god, then claim that they have a right to live themselves. It finally dawned on me at that point, in a frighteningly visual manner, that man is interwoven with his surroundings. By helping everything around us to thrive, we become stronger together. When we sever enough of those threads, we unravel and lose our strength. I also spent a good deal of time talking to a lizard.

It did encourage me to find my own way. I think that may be the most valuable lesson learned from it.

[Cr0wley]

Originally Posted by Druidus

The only drugs I would utilize for the purposes of a spiritual journey would be those used by shamans for the same.

Want my opinion? Get Salvia Divinorum (The Divine Sage). Legal (besides Australia and one other country. Legal in the U.S. and Canada for sure.), and cheaper than mushrooms/marijuana. Used by the Mazatec and other South Americans for centuries, and much better than some other drugs.

You don't smoke it, but you suck on it, in a quid, which goes under your tongue. Some people add some honey, because it's not known for it's taste, but it's twenty times better than anything else, and is unique among such drugs, in that it has a chemical signiture different from any other drug.

Hold on, and I'll get you some links.

Ooo... Do you know if it's avalible in South Africa? And is it illegal to import if it isn't?

[Druidus]

Salvia divinorum is an extraordinary herb used in shamanism, divination, healing, meditation, and the exploration of consciousness.
It should always be used in a thoughtful, intelligent manner, and only by responsible adults that are of sound mind and clear intent.
"The purpose of these sacraments is to purify, and to open the road. When it opens,
it's as clear as the blue sky, and the stars at night are as bright as suns."
—Aurelia Aurora Catarino (Mazatec shaman)

http://www.thevirtualbrowser.com/ind...nyivnfubc.ugzy

Here, you can buy it at that site, however:

"IMPORTANT! I will not sell Salvia divinorum to minors! Do not place an order unless you are an adult over 18 years of age. Before you place your order, please make a commitment to yourself to use this herb in a responsible, intelligent, and safe manner. Use Salvia divinorum wisely."

So if you are under sixteen , you will need to get someone to buy it for you. It is not illegal to sell it to minors, but the owner of the site wants to keep Salvia legal, and immature teenagers would ruin that. By your posts, I see that you are mature, and by this thread, I see that you are going into this with respnsible, intelligent commitment, and are not looking for a "trip".

You can get a quarter ounce, or seven grams, for fourty dollars (not sure whether American or Canadian). This will be enough for 15-30 uses.

One unique thing about this drug is that as you use it more, you don't become resistant to the effects, but you become sensitized, so less amounts will satisfy you.

http://www.thevirtualbrowser.com/ind...frefthvqr.ugzy

That is the Salvia Divinorum User's Guide, which you should thoroughly read before using it.


My statement about it's legality before was incorrect. Here:

Salvia divinorum and its active principal, salvinorin A, are legal substances in the United States and most other countries. Australia, Denmark, Belgium, Italy, and South Korea are the only countries that have enacted legislation making possession of Salvia divinorum and/or salvinorin A illegal. In Finland, it is illegal to import Salvia divinorum without a relevant prescription from a doctor. Additional information about Salvia's legal status, and pending legislation that might affect it, is available at: http://sagewisdom.org/new.html.

[Druidus]

Ooo... Do you know if it's avalible in South Africa? And is it illegal to import if it isn't?

I'm not sure if it's available there, but it is legal to possess, sell, buy, grow, and import/export Salvia Divinorum in South Africa. I wouldn't trust street Salvia though. If you can buy off of the site I gave you, you are buying actual Mazatec crops, which are harvested each year. Stronger than other varieties as well.

[painted wolf]

Some drugs used in the proper way by people who know what they are doing can bring great insight.

Tobacco is a sacred herb, sadly when misused it is eventually fatal. Many medicine plants are the same. I would never reccomend using anything without FULLY knowing what you are getting into.

Eaven shamans never use such things carelessly or for enjoyment... learn from their example. If you don't know, don't touch.

wa:do

[anami]

Originally Posted by Cr0wley

Can drugs be used for religious experiences?

**yes.

[meogi]

Sure... the chemicals in drugs affect the chemicals in the brain, which is where all our 'religious experiences' come from anyway. But I'm curious as to why you all think an alteration of perception can be more religious than normally perceived phenomona? Why can certain religious experiences be experienced with drugs, and others without? It all just seems to go back to the brain thing, to me...

[anami]

Originally Posted by meogi

But I'm curious as to why you all think an alteration of perception can be more religious than normally perceived phenomona? Why can certain religious experiences be experienced with drugs, and others without? It all just seems to go back to the brain thing, to me...

i think it goes back to the individual experience, as there are no two religious experiences that are the same. Even in regards to one person having two religious experiences with the same pirameters. It is still not going to be the same experience both times. Religious experiences don't do "reruns"

There are NO religious experiences that REQUIRE anything, drugs, fasting, churching, whatever.

no one said to have religious experiences with drugs is better, it was only asked if it occured.

Unless you believe there is standardized religious experice testing.

but that would be another thread.