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  #21  
Old 08-30-2010, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Penumbra View Post
In what way was the Buddha perfect? What is it that makes him perfect?
Penumbra,
Kindly share your thoughts. What is a perfect being in your view then?
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2010, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Penumbra View Post
So you believe all people are perfect? Can you elaborate?
Sure.. a perfect being is someone who most fulfills their being, thus everyone is perfect. We could not become imperfect, we are perfect expression of our beings.
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  #23  
Old 08-31-2010, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by joea View Post
Penumbra,
Kindly share your thoughts. What is a perfect being in your view then?
From an earlier reply:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penumbra View Post
I don't subscribe to the concept of perfection either, but as I have stated, I have seen a lot of people say that the point of life is to perfect the soul, so I'd like to hear people's thoughts.
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  #24  
Old 08-31-2010, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dust1n View Post
Sure.. a perfect being is someone who most fulfills their being, thus everyone is perfect. We could not become imperfect, we are perfect expression of our beings.
How does one know whether they've fulfilled their being or not?
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  #25  
Old 08-31-2010, 06:59 AM
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I suppose we could make assumptions about what the goal of being is and then proceed to see what kind of being necessarily follows... Suppose the purpose of being is to gather information/knowledge. In that case a perfect being should be omniscient or at least have the potential for being omniscient.
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  #26  
Old 08-31-2010, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin View Post
You're talking about Baha'u'llah, right?
No, I'm not!

Baha'u'llah was imprisoned and therefore not able to exhibit much of anything!

I'm speaking of 'Abdu'l-Baha, His son, who travelled the world teaching the Faith.

And the "one standard" you speak of would include the major virtues like humility, honesty, etc., which he exhibited in spades!

(Of course, you're fully free to demonstrate that he didn't in fact fulfill this standard if you can, which I seriously doubt!)

Peace, :-)

Bruce
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  #27  
Old 08-31-2010, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceDLimber View Post
No, I'm not!

Baha'u'llah was imprisoned and therefore not able to exhibit much of anything!

I'm speaking of 'Abdu'l-Baha, His son, who travelled the world teaching the Faith.

And the "one standard" you speak of would include the major virtues like humility, honesty, etc., which he exhibited in spades!

(Of course, you're fully free to demonstrate that he didn't in fact fulfill this standard if you can, which I seriously doubt!)

Peace, :-)

Bruce
On what basis do you propose that virtues like humility, honesty, etc. are the basis of perfection. Is it based on opinion?

Also, what were Abdul's beliefs?
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  #28  
Old 09-01-2010, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Penumbra View Post
On what basis do you propose that virtues like humility, honesty, etc. are the basis of perfection/

On the statements in the scriptures of many different religions!

Also, what were Abdul's beliefs?
The correct name is 'Abdu'l-Baha. "Abdu'l" merely means "Servant of" and is therefore incomplete.

He served as head of the Baha'i Faith and as the authorized interpreter of its scriptures, as appointed in Baha'u'llah's Will and Testament (Baha'u'llah is the Founder of the Faith). As such, he proclaimed and promoted many virtues during his life, including those mentioned above.

He Himself wrote a number of volumes of what are now part of the Baha'i scriptures.

If you'd like a better understanding of his beliefs and teachings, an excellent place to start is his Some Answered Questions, which you can find at:

www.bahai-library.org

under the "Baha'i Writings" heading.

Regards, :-)

Bruce
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  #29  
Old 09-01-2010, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceDLimber View Post
No, I'm not!

Baha'u'llah was imprisoned and therefore not able to exhibit much of anything!
If you say so, though he didn't spend his whole life in prison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceDLimber View Post
I'm speaking of 'Abdu'l-Baha, His son, who travelled the world teaching the Faith.

And the "one standard" you speak of would include the major virtues like humility, honesty, etc., which he exhibited in spades!

(Of course, you're fully free to demonstrate that he didn't in fact fulfill this standard if you can, which I seriously doubt!)
Well, to begin with, I think we need to establish why particular characteristics would be a necessary part of an objective standard of perfection. For instance, you mentioned honesty; I can think of plenty of situations where honesty is not morally good - for instance, the old example of the German citizen during WWII hiding a Jewish family in his attic. Would you really consider it perfect for him to be completely honest when the Nazis come knocking and ask if he's seen any Jews around?

And even setting aside the rather large question of how we decide which criteria are valid, if we just go with the criteria you mentioned, we still have problems. They generate a logical contradiction, which indicates that they can't both be simultaneously true for the same person: if the person was perfectly honest about his perfect humility, then he would be being less than perfectly humble.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by BruceDLimber View Post
He served as head of the Baha'i Faith and as the authorized interpreter of its scriptures, as appointed in Baha'u'llah's Will and Testament (Baha'u'llah is the Founder of the Faith). As such, he proclaimed and promoted many virtues during his life, including those mentioned above.
Speaking for myself, I know very little about the Baha'ì faith and nothing at all about the virtues you say he proclaimed. IMO, this implies that they were proclaimed less than perfectly - a perfect proclamation is heard by everyone.

Same with promoting virtues: I take this to mean the attempt to instill these virtues in onesself and/or others - if so, then the fact that these virtues are not now universally instilled implies that he was not entirely successful in his attempt... IOW, that he was less than perfect.
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