Jesus as the "King of the Jews"...An interesting perspective (Jesus Christ, Earth)

[MoFacta]

I know it’s a long post but if you have an interest into a more historical study of the time of Jesus you might find this interesting:

If any of you have read, “The Hiram Key” or any such book on the academic and historical study of Religion, you may have encountered scholars which raise an interesting, if not grossly overlooked aspect of the crucifixion of Yehoshua ben Joseph (or his more commonly known title of Jesus Christ) and his fulfillment of the Jewish and resulting Christian prophecies of a Messiah.

Now, as many of you know, and as most of those in Judaism will tell you, it is prophesized in the Old Testament that a savior figure was expected through the line of David. Most of our understanding of the contemporary(1st, 2nd Century) and therefore more historical perception and interpretation of these prophecies was through the infamous Dead Sea and Nag Hammadi scrolls found in Qumran and Egypt, respectively. Among the ancient scrolls containing Jewish prophetic scripture was also included contemporary scripture written by those followers of the early Jerusalem Church (these scriptures were excluded from the official compilation of the Holy Bible in 325 AD at the Coucil of Nicea and subsequentially burned). These manuscripts are very important as they are our oldest and therefore closest link we have to envision what the expectation was for a “Messiah” at the time of Jesus the Christ and to understand how it is linked to Jesus.

In order to get a fuller understanding of this, it is necessary to understand the name of the man we so unassumingly call Jesus Christ. No body can say for sure what he was named at birth but what scholars can agree on was that he was probably called, as mentioned before, Yehoshua ben Joseph (It was common to add your earthly fathers’ name as a post-fix). The name Yehoshua specifically means ‘Yahweh delivers’ and can be translated today as the name Joshua. The name Jesus is simply the Greek interpretation of Yehoshua but as interesting as this is, it becomes a triviality as we difinitive part of his name and root word of Christianity, Christ.

Christ, or Christos, is a Greek variation of the Jewish word for Messiah, which today - and any Christian will undoubtedly agree – is conceptually synonymous with, “the bringer of salvation by the redemption of sin.” The conflict here was that if we are to assume that Jesus was fulfilling this concept of a ‘Messiah’, he would incontestably be subject to the expectations of those expecting him at the time, namely, the Jews! The concept the Jews at the time of Jesus had of a messiah was more likely to be defined as, “he who will become rightful King of he Jews.” The Jews, in short, were waiting for a leader, a military, or kingly leader to save them from bondage (the Jewish peoples have been notoriously suppressed and persecuted for a VERY long time) and raise them to a powerful nation serving the ways of Yahweh, their God. Contrary to what modern Christians believe, there were no supernatural, magical connotations to this story at all as the prophecies were expected to serve the Jewish nation as a whole, not the individual seeking salvation. This is supported by lots and lots of evidence which would take more and more of your time to read but for the intents and purposes of the idea at hand it is sufficient to know the aforementioned points as it is at the very heart of the next matter and the whole core of this historical ramble.

The word ‘Messiah’ appears but twice in the official version of the Old Testament and not at all in the New Testament. This can be explained by the assumption that the Greek translators in the 3rd Century who converted the Bible from Hebrew to Greek simply replaced the word ‘Messiah’ with ‘Christos’ every time they came across it. This, combined with the above perspective, all puts a remarkable twist on the way we perceive the Bible, more specifically the Old Testament, and it’s authority within the Christian Church. This consideration of a Messiah-figure practically severs all ties Christianity has to Judaism and the Old Testament, and no doubt leaves Jewish Scholars with the all too familiar feeling that their holy scripture was hijacked to lend credence to some ‘Roman mystery cult’ in the first century. The central argument here and the most logical point to support all this is the fact that since Jesus was crucified before his time he was unsuccessful at fulfilling the ‘Messiah’ prophecy and therefore failed at becoming the ‘King of the Jews’! Astounding! And no doubt disturbing to most followers of Christianity, I’m sure.

I know I’m throwing some pretty heavy ideas out here and I apologize if I’ve offended anyone but I’m sure if you follow the logic of what I’ve told you (you can even check my facts if you like) you will find it at least ponderous. But I suppose that if Religion was logical it would defeat it's purpose and we’d all be in quite a state of confusion. So, in closing, take what you can from this little piece of information and believe what you must. That’s definitely what I intend to do.

Thanks for your time! Love and happiness for all of you!

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by MoFacta

The word ‘Messiah’ appears but twice in the official version of the Old Testament and not at all in the New Testament. This can be explained by the assumption that the Greek translators in the 3rd Century who converted the Bible from Hebrew to Greek simply replaced the word ‘Messiah’ with ‘Christos’ every time they came across it. This, combined with the above perspective, all puts a remarkable twist on the way we perceive the Bible, more specifically the Old Testament, and it’s authority within the Christian Church. This consideration of a Messiah-figure practically severs all ties Christianity has to Judaism and the Old Testament, and no doubt leaves Jewish Scholars with the all too familiar feeling that their holy scripture was hijacked to lend credence to some ‘Roman mystery cult’ in the first century. The central argument here and the most logical point to support all this is the fact that since Jesus was crucified before his time he was unsuccessful at fulfilling the ‘Messiah’ prophecy and therefore failed at becoming the ‘King of the Jews’! Astounding! And no doubt disturbing to most followers of Christianity, I’m sure.

Firstly, which third century? The Old Testament was translated from Hebrew to Greek between the 3rd and 1st centuries BC to form the Septuagint, which is still the OT of the Orthodox Church. The New Testament (with a couple of possible exceptions, though even these are far from certain) was originally written in Greek not Hebrew and hence required no translation. That's why you never find the word Messiah in the NT. The authors used Christos which is the exact Greek translation, both words meaning annointed.

What the Jews expected of their messiah is not likely to have any effect on Christian belief as we simply believe they were wrong to expect what they did. It's certainly not disturbing to me in the least.

James

[may]

Originally Posted by MoFacta

I know it’s a long post but if you have an interest into a more historical study of the time of Jesus you might find this interesting:

If any of you have read, “The Hiram Key” or any such book on the academic and historical study of Religion, you may have encountered scholars which raise an interesting, if not grossly overlooked aspect of the crucifixion of Yehoshua ben Joseph (or his more commonly known title of Jesus Christ) and his fulfillment of the Jewish and resulting Christian prophecies of a Messiah.

Now, as many of you know, and as most of those in Judaism will tell you, it is prophesized in the Old Testament that a savior figure was expected through the line of David. Most of our understanding of the contemporary(1st, 2nd Century) and therefore more historical perception and interpretation of these prophecies was through the infamous Dead Sea and Nag Hammadi scrolls found in Qumran and Egypt, respectively. Among the ancient scrolls containing Jewish prophetic scripture was also included contemporary scripture written by those followers of the early Jerusalem Church (these scriptures were excluded from the official compilation of the Holy Bible in 325 AD at the Coucil of Nicea and subsequentially burned). These manuscripts are very important as they are our oldest and therefore closest link we have to envision what the expectation was for a “Messiah” at the time of Jesus the Christ and to understand how it is linked to Jesus.

In order to get a fuller understanding of this, it is necessary to understand the name of the man we so unassumingly call Jesus Christ. No body can say for sure what he was named at birth but what scholars can agree on was that he was probably called, as mentioned before, Yehoshua ben Joseph (It was common to add your earthly fathers’ name as a post-fix). The name Yehoshua specifically means ‘Yahweh delivers’ and can be translated today as the name Joshua. The name Jesus is simply the Greek interpretation of Yehoshua but as interesting as this is, it becomes a triviality as we difinitive part of his name and root word of Christianity, Christ.

Christ, or Christos, is a Greek variation of the Jewish word for Messiah, which today - and any Christian will undoubtedly agree – is conceptually synonymous with, “the bringer of salvation by the redemption of sin.” The conflict here was that if we are to assume that Jesus was fulfilling this concept of a ‘Messiah’, he would incontestably be subject to the expectations of those expecting him at the time, namely, the Jews! The concept the Jews at the time of Jesus had of a messiah was more likely to be defined as, “he who will become rightful King of he Jews.” The Jews, in short, were waiting for a leader, a military, or kingly leader to save them from bondage (the Jewish peoples have been notoriously suppressed and persecuted for a VERY long time) and raise them to a powerful nation serving the ways of Yahweh, their God. Contrary to what modern Christians believe, there were no supernatural, magical connotations to this story at all as the prophecies were expected to serve the Jewish nation as a whole, not the individual seeking salvation. This is supported by lots and lots of evidence which would take more and more of your time to read but for the intents and purposes of the idea at hand it is sufficient to know the aforementioned points as it is at the very heart of the next matter and the whole core of this historical ramble.

The word ‘Messiah’ appears but twice in the official version of the Old Testament and not at all in the New Testament. This can be explained by the assumption that the Greek translators in the 3rd Century who converted the Bible from Hebrew to Greek simply replaced the word ‘Messiah’ with ‘Christos’ every time they came across it. This, combined with the above perspective, all puts a remarkable twist on the way we perceive the Bible, more specifically the Old Testament, and it’s authority within the Christian Church. This consideration of a Messiah-figure practically severs all ties Christianity has to Judaism and the Old Testament, and no doubt leaves Jewish Scholars with the all too familiar feeling that their holy scripture was hijacked to lend credence to some ‘Roman mystery cult’ in the first century. The central argument here and the most logical point to support all this is the fact that since Jesus was crucified before his time he was unsuccessful at fulfilling the ‘Messiah’ prophecy and therefore failed at becoming the ‘King of the Jews’! Astounding! And no doubt disturbing to most followers of Christianity, I’m sure.

I know I’m throwing some pretty heavy ideas out here and I apologize if I’ve offended anyone but I’m sure if you follow the logic of what I’ve told you (you can even check my facts if you like) you will find it at least ponderous. But I suppose that if Religion was logical it would defeat it's purpose and we’d all be in quite a state of confusion. So, in closing, take what you can from this little piece of information and believe what you must. That’s definitely what I intend to do.

Thanks for your time! Love and happiness for all of you!

Gods son Jesus christ has now been made king in the heavenly kingdom goverment Daniel 2;44 Daniel 7;13-14 this was in line with bible prophecy and chronology, Jesus was the rightful heir to the throne ,and the appointed times of the nations (end of the gentile times)ended in 1914 this was when the kingdom was born in the heavens and Jesus was given the kingship. so 1914 was the start of the last days, the last days being the last days of man ruling himself independant of God. soon this king Jesus christ will put an end to manmade rulerships and Gods kingdom will last forever. Jesus plays a very big part in the out working of his fathers puropse for the earth , and it is all happening in this time of the end.Jesus may have been put to death but it was for a purpose, and Gods purpose will be fullfilled.

[universal_brother]

Muslims beleive the Messiah prophesy is yet to be fulfilled.

In Islam it's beleived the Al-Mahdi will become the King of the Jews, aswell as the
leader of the Muslims.

He will reveal to them the lost ark of the covenant, following in the footsteps
of Prophet Saul(pbuh). Revealing the orignal torah, that was placed in the ark.

Jesus(pbuh) will also return, soon after the Mahdi's arrival, and lead the world in to a better age, a kingdom of God (on Earth).

[may]

Originally Posted by universal_brother

Muslims beleive the Messiah prophesy is yet to be fulfilled.

In Islam it's beleived the Al-Mahdi will become the King of the Jews, aswell as the
leader of the Muslims.

He will reveal to them the lost ark of the covenant, following in the footsteps
of Prophet Saul(pbuh). Revealing the orignal torah, that was placed in the ark.

Jesus(pbuh) will also return, soon after the Mahdi's arrival, and lead the world in to a better age, a kingdom of God (on Earth).

bible prophecy is now well along in this time of the end.bible prophecy has in the past come true , and is right now undergoing fullfillment . and very soon now all false religion will come to its end.there is no stopping bible prophecy. no one can stop Gods purpose from being accomplished it will come true. bible prophecy is now well along in this time of the end .thrilling times indeed.