Eurika! 1 Tim 2.15 - I know what it means! (salvation, soul)

[angellous_evangellous]

ESV 1 Timothy 2:15 Yet she will be saved through childbearing- if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

This verse is about abortion and exposure. There are no texts in the NT that proscribe these practices, but there are several references in Jewish sources (first century CE and onwards, not to mention prohibitions in the Law) and Roman philosophy that provide adequate background for later Christians who address the topic.

Anyway, I think that the proper way to interpret this text is through Essene influence, with Josephus serving as an example:

Originally Posted by Daddy's research notes

“te/kna tre/fein a3panta prose/tacen, kai\ gunaici\n a)pei=pen mh&t' a)mblou~n to_ spare\n mh&te diafqei/rein a)lla_ h2n fanei/h teknokto&noj a2n ei1h yuxh_n a)fani/zousa kai\ to_ ge/noj e0lattou~sa.”“The law, moreover, enjoins us to bring up all our offspring, and forbids women to cause abortion of what is begotten, or to destroy it afterward; and if any woman appears to have so done, she will be a murderer of her child, by destroying a living creature, and diminishing human kind.” Josephus may think that women actually destroy the soul of the child. “The final paragraph of this section discloses the philosophical principle uniting the three sources of uncleanness: sexual inter- course (leading to conception), childbearing and death all consist in yuxh_j merismo/j, a division of the soul, part of which passes from one place to another. This idea, which demands further elucidation, has Greek antecedents and appears also to be akin to Essene anthropology as depicted by Josephus,” Vermes, Geza. “A Summary of the Law by Flavius Josephus.” Novum Testamentum 24:4 (Oct., 1982): 297.

So, I think that the author of 1 Tim had a similar idea - that if a woman raised her children rather than killing them she will be saved. Otherwise, she has killed the soul and life of another person and therefore will be judged by God.

[angellous_evangellous]

*Angellous takes off all his clothes and runs around the library like a crazy heathen*

[Sola'lor]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

*Angellous takes off all his clothes and runs around the library like a crazy heathen*

Hmmm.... I'm glad I'm not in your library. But I am slightly surious.

[angellous_evangellous]

Compare to Aristotle, On History of Animals:

"Women of a lascivious disposition grow more sedate and virtuous after they have borne several children."

[Te Deum]

Here is what my Bible Commentary states on 1 Tim 2:15

Ver. 15. She shall be saved by bearing children, &c. and performing other duties of a wife, with a due submission to her husband, taking care to serve God, and bring up her children in the faith of Christ, in piety, &c. (Witham) --- This would perhaps be more properly rendered, from the Greek, by the bringing up of her children in faith, charity, and holiness. This is the duty of the woman; upon the faithful discharge or neglect of which she must expect her salvation, or reprobation, to hang. Thus repairing the evil which the first of all women brought upon man, by seducing him to evil. (Bible de Vence)

http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id228.html

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Te Deum

Here is what my Bible Commentary states on 1 Tim 2:15

This is well and good:

Ver. 15. She shall be saved by bearing children, &c. and performing other duties of a wife, with a due submission to her husband, taking care to serve God, and bring up her children in the faith of Christ, in piety, &c. (Witham) --- This would perhaps be more properly rendered, from the Greek, by the bringing up of her children in faith, charity, and holiness. This is the duty of the woman; upon the faithful discharge or neglect of which she must expect her salvation, or reprobation, to hang. Thus repairing the evil which the first of all women brought upon man, by seducing him to evil. (Bible de Vence)

http://haydock1859.tripod.com/id228.html

But the verse introduces problems for both Catholic and Protestant theologians, because it focuses salvation on the duties of the wife. Scholars have been asking why is a woman saved by bearing children... what about grace and the sacrifice of Christ, etc?

[Eidolon]

I was recently discussing this passage with a few friends and they came to the conclusion that "women will be saved (restored) through childbearing" is actually a reference to the birth of Christ. I disagreed with them because earlier in the passage Paul talks about all people being saved through Christ and to mention it again in such a roundabout way doesn't seem to fit with the context of the passage. but any thoughts would be appreciated. Also the condition following the statement "if they continue..." doesn't fit with salvation being "a gift of God" mentioned in Ephesians 2:8.

Any thoughts?

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Eidolon

I was recently discussing this passage with a few friends and they came to the conclusion that "women will be saved (restored) through childbearing" is actually a reference to the birth of Christ. I disagreed with them because earlier in the passage Paul talks about all people being saved through Christ and to mention it again in such a roundabout way doesn't seem to fit with the context of the passage. but any thoughts would be appreciated. Also the condition following the statement "if they continue..." doesn't fit with salvation being "a gift of God" mentioned in Ephesians 2:8.

Any thoughts?

Sure.

Most Protestant theologies completely ignore Christian traditions concerning sanctification - the working out of salvation, and place the work of salvation completely in the work of Christ (Luther and company) or in the sovereignty of God (Calvin and company).

Salvation has always been conditional on obedience, and yet salvation remains a gift of God. It must be cultivated and actualized by good works for all of us - not just women.

My threads against Calvinism