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  #21  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lunamoth View Post
That Christ=God=Love
I guess we meant the same thing then...
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  #22  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott1 View Post
Was Jesus being counter-productive/love when He admonished sinners?
BTW, it seems he was admonishing them about what they do.
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  #23  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lunamoth View Post
That Christ=God=Love
Isnt the opinion that Christ=God most CERTAINLY one of those "specific details of belief" that cause people to tell others "they are not 'saved' if they don't believe a certain doctrine"?

Soooooo....... what gives?
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  #24  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by uss_bigd View Post
I guess we meant the same thing then...
OK then!
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  #25  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott1 View Post
Isnt the opinion that Christ=God most CERTAINLY one of those "specific details of belief" that cause people to tell others "they are not 'saved' if they don't believe a certain doctrine"?

Soooooo....... what gives?
What is the important thing about believing that Christ = God = Love? That you give this your intellectual assent, or that you live it?

Anyway, I think you already said that you agreed with the main point of my OP, that eternal life is not based upon giving intellectual assent to Christian dogma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
Most certainly.... but one does not be a Christian or know "the Way" to participate in God's work in the world or attain eternal life, wouldn't you say?
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  #26  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:37 PM
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Time for this moth to go to bed now. Thank you for the exchange Scott. And ussbd.

In His Peace,
luna
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  #27  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lunamoth View Post
What is the important thing about believing that Christ = God = Love? That you give this your intellectual assent, or that you live it?
You are correct... and I stand by that quote you provided... but let me add that I believe it applies to NON-CHRISTIANS.

As for Christians, to those who have been given much, much is required.

Christians are held to a bit higher standard than those who have not embraced the Gospel... and intellectual assent is most certainly required for Christians... for example my still unanswered question to you:

What BELIEF could they deny that would cause Christ to deny them before the Father?

Thanks for the chat.
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  #28  
Old 04-18-2008, 08:59 AM
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What BELIEF could they deny that would cause Christ to deny them before the Father?
What BELIEF did Jesus ask of his disciples?
Quote:
Originally Posted by John 14
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know [b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." 8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."




9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, all who have faith in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.


15 "If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be [c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. Anyone who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them."

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?" 23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. (John 14)
What is His command? What is his teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John 15
12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because servants do not know their master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

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  #29  
Old 04-18-2008, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by lunamoth View Post
It's Not About Belief
This is a good thing, because if it were about belief, that could pose a problem... I'm not convinced we have as much control over our beliefs as we'd like to think, and I'd hate to be judged for something I can't effectively control.
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  #30  
Old 04-18-2008, 09:39 AM
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This is a good thing, because if it were about belief, that could pose a problem... I'm not convinced we have as much control over our beliefs as we'd like to think, and I'd hate to be judged for something I can't effectively control.
Right, but you do have choice about your actions.

As far as I can discern, Jesus was saying that God is about loving one another. Love is an action, found in the choices we make each day. Love is not about belief, although our beliefs do shape our choices.
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