A serious Question for christians..... (Jesus, virtual, choice, creation)

[michel]

I believe in free will - that, as I see it, presumes that God will not intervene in our lives; after all, all that we do is as a result of our own thoughts, wants, and actions.

As such, I have never quite understood what most of us - I guess - do, and that is to ask God to look after our loved ones.

My younger son spends a lot of time on the road; he seems to have drivemn more in the last seven moths of being employed that I have in the last couple of years. naturally, I know he is often tired, and since he is driving on motorways (speed limit 70 mph - which most drivers tend to think of not as a limit, but a guide), I worry about him.

I often pray for God to "keep an eye on him" and to take care of him.

Last night, he phoned half way home (he was still 100 miles away); one of the rear wheels of his car had come off..............

At over 70 mph, that's bad news; he had with him (as a passenger) his Manager who is nearly blind - he offered to take him up to the audit in question (accountancy), and bring him back.

As the wheel came off, the car went down on one backside, and the road ripped of the break pikes for the hydraulic fluid - he lost his brakes as well.

Somehow, he managed to use the handbrake (which snapped half way though the process) to slow him down a bit, switched off his engine, and managed to pull over).

Most peculiarly (as I see it), he was completely unhurt (except left shaken - as was the poor guy with him).

I had prayed for God to look over him, and watch him that morning (as I always do).

Was it simply "luck" ? Did God (or maybe his guardian Angel) have a part to play in his not being killed ? I would be interested in your thoughts; as I say, I have always felt that God does not intervene in our lives (oooh, I must go save James, because his Dad asked me to do so).

What do you all think?

[Runlikethewind]

In order for God to look after our loved ones without compromising our free-will He must do it in such a way that we cannot be certain He was even involved. I would say God or a guardian angel or some other divine force may have helped your son, but one must believe it on faith. Thats the thing, maybe God or his angels interfere in our lives everyday and we just don't know it. That tingling on the back of our neck when danger is near, some would call it instinct others might call it God. Your son's safety some might call it luck others would call it God. No way to tell if God has helped us or if it was something else, so our free will is safe and not compromised. Its like that movie with Meg Ryan and Nicholas Cage (I forget the name, city of angels or something) where Cage plays an angel and there are all these angels running around whispering in peoples ears. No one knows they are there but they are. Thats the sort of thing I imagine.

[Terrywoodenpic]

God always answers prayers...
But not necessarily in the way we expect.

His near miss I am sure, has taught him a valuable lesson.
Strong enough to scare him... but it only hurt his pocket.

If he is wise he will learn from it.


BTW.. Wheel bearings, on the way out, give a very distinctive sound when going round corners.( you can tell which wheel by which way you are turning when the sound comes.) he now knows what it sounds like.
Wheel bearings are not expensive... leaving them is.

[bible truth]

Originally Posted by michel

My belief is that, as we have free will, God cannot - must not - intervene in our lives, because to do so would negate our free will, choice making, and maybe sufferring for the faults of others.

As such, when I prayed for him to be safe that morning, Did God hear my Prayer ? Did he answer it ? Did he - or a guardian angel - help James come out unscathed from a 70 mph "virtual" crash?

What do you all think ? I am really confused; was it mere coincidence and !"chance" that he wasn't mince meat at the end, or did my prayer "help" ?

Hey Michel,

Please consider how God reveals Himself through the Bible. It appears you are trying to walk by sight and not by faith alone. Faith pleases God. The Bible does not reveal anything like you described above as "fee will". If you disagree, please present a biblcal response to support your stated belief of "free will".

We can choose to walk by faith in what God reveals through Scripture. Or, we can walk by our personal opinions about God that maybe contradictory to His written revelation. Trust in God through His Word, because Scripture tells us that God cannot lie. Please hold on to the promises of God that are proclaimed in the Bible.
- BT

Romans 8
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;

we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[COD]

Just luck I would imagine...

[uumckk16]

Originally Posted by michel

I believe in free will - that, as I see it, presumes that God will not intervene in our lives; after all, all that we do is as a result of our own thoughts, wants, and actions.

As such, I have never quite understood what most of us - I guess - do, and that is to ask God to look after our loved ones.

My younger son spends a lot of time on the road; he seems to have drivemn more in the last seven moths of being employed that I have in the last couple of years. naturally, I know he is often tired, and since he is driving on motorways (speed limit 70 mph - which most drivers tend to think of not as a limit, but a guide), I worry about him.

I often pray for God to "keep an eye on him" and to take care of him.

Last night, he phoned half way home (he was still 100 miles away); one of the rear wheels of his car had come off..............

At over 70 mph, that's bad news; he had with him (as a passenger) his Manager who is nearly blind - he offered to take him up to the audit in question (accountancy), and bring him back.

As the wheel came off, the car went down on one backside, and the road ripped of the break pikes for the hydraulic fluid - he lost his brakes as well.

Somehow, he managed to use the handbrake (which snapped half way though the process) to slow him down a bit, switched off his engine, and managed to pull over).

Most peculiarly (as I see it), he was completely unhurt (except left shaken - as was the poor guy with him).

I had prayed for God to look over him, and watch him that morning (as I always do).

Was it simply "luck" ? Did God (or maybe his guardian Angel) have a part to play in his not being killed ? I would be interested in your thoughts; as I say, I have always felt that God does not intervene in our lives (oooh, I must go save James, because his Dad asked me to do so).

What do you all think?

I agree with you in that I believe in free will.

It's difficult for me to accept that God intervenes on the part of some and not others. That is not to say that I don't think your son would deserve God's intervention - but I think many others would, as well. I think the Jews in the Holocaust and those in Darfur today could both use/have used God's intervention, pretty desperately. I think all those who are without food or water or are dying of AIDS could use God's intervention. Some can accept that it's God's will. I can't.

I hate to use the word "luck," but as that was the word you used, I would say that.

People get in accidents every day. Some survive, some don't. I don't believe we can say that the survivals are due to God's intervention and the deaths are because God wanted them to die because it's part of his "plan."

But that's just me

[lunamoth]

From the Book of Common Prayer:

Almighty God, we entrust all who are dear to us to thy never-failing care and love, for this life and the life to come, knowing that Thou art doing for them better things than we can desire or pray for; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

This prayer always reminds me of the 'groanings' of the Holy Spirit, the part of us that knows God and reaches out to Him, even when our words fall pathetically short...we really don't know what to pray for, so the Spirit does it for us.

I also like this prayer because it reminds me that all are in God's care and God knows what we need much more than we do ourselves.

Glad your son was unhurt!

[Victor]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

From the Book of Common Prayer:

Almighty God, we entrust all who are dear to us to thy never-failing care and love, for this life and the life to come, knowing that Thou art doing for them better things than we can desire or pray for; through Jeuss Christ our Lord. Amen.

This prayer always reminds me of the 'groanings' of the Holy Spirit, the part of us that knows God and reaches out to Him, even when our words fall pathetically short...we really don't know what to pray for, so the Spirit does it for us.

I also like this prayer because it reminds me that all are in God's care and God knows what we need much more than we do ourselves.

Glad your son was unhurt!

I like that prayer and it's so true. Thanks for sharing Luna.

[michel]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

From the Book of Common Prayer:

Almighty God, we entrust all who are dear to us to thy never-failing care and love, for this life and the life to come, knowing that Thou art doing for them better things than we can desire or pray for; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

This prayer always reminds me of the 'groanings' of the Holy Spirit, the part of us that knows God and reaches out to Him, even when our words fall pathetically short...we really don't know what to pray for, so the Spirit does it for us.

I also like this prayer because it reminds me that all are in God's care and God knows what we need much more than we do ourselves.

Glad your son was unhurt!

Thanks; like Victor, I like that prayer!

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

From the Book of Common Prayer:

Almighty God, we entrust all who are dear to us to thy never-failing care and love, for this life and the life to come, knowing that Thou art doing for them better things than we can desire or pray for; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

This prayer always reminds me of the 'groanings' of the Holy Spirit, the part of us that knows God and reaches out to Him, even when our words fall pathetically short...we really don't know what to pray for, so the Spirit does it for us.

I also like this prayer because it reminds me that all are in God's care and God knows what we need much more than we do ourselves.

Glad your son was unhurt!

The book of common prayer contains many good things,
It is a pity it spends so much time on the shelf these days.