I've changed my mind about Gnosticism (Jesus, Creator, gospel, Kingdom)

[angellous_evangellous]

Here are some quotations to consider:

Apocryphon of John:
"Now up to the present day, sexual intercourse continued due to the chief archon. And he planted sexual desire in her who belongs to Adam. And he produced through intercourse the copies of the bodies, and he inspired them with his counterfeit spirit."

Here we see that harm in the world comes from the creator god - because of an imperfect creation, there is male and female who need to unite sexually. I think that this cosmology explicitly follows Plato's Timaeus, where androgyny is the ideal, and males and females need to have sex in order to stay healthy and ragain the ideal androgyny. It's not divine knowledge that saves, but a cosmic reunification of male and female.

"And the two archons he set over principalities, so that they might rule over the tomb. And when Adam recognized the likeness of his own foreknowledge, he begot the likeness of the son of man. He called him Seth, according to the way of the race in the aeons. Likewise, the mother also sent down her spirit, which is in her likeness and a copy of those who are in the pleroma, for she will prepare a dwelling place for the aeons which will come down. And he made them drink water of forgetfulness, from the chief archon, in order that they might not know from where they came. Thus, the seed remained for a while assisting (him), in order that, when the Spirit comes forth from the holy aeons, he may raise up and heal him from the deficiency, that the whole pleroma may (again) become holy and faultless."

Apparently this is the evil or ignorant creator god who made humanity drink of forgetfulness so that humanity would forget the circumstances of creation.

And I said to the savior, "Lord, will all the souls then be brought safely into the pure light?" He answered and said to me, "Great things have arisen in your mind, for it is difficult to explain them to others except to those who are from the immovable race. Those on whom the Spirit of life will descend and (with whom) he will be with the power, they will be saved and become perfect and be worthy of the greatness and be purified in that place from all wickedness and the involvements in evil. Then they have no other care than the incorruption alone, to which they direct their attention from here on, without anger or envy or jealousy or desire and greed of anything. They are not affected by anything except the state of being in the flesh alone, which they bear while looking expectantly for the time when they will be met by the receivers (of the body). Such then are worthy of the imperishable, eternal life and the calling. For they endure everything and bear up under everything, that they may finish the good fight and inherit eternal life."

Here we see that some are called - an elitism and ethic. The knowledge does not come from the self but from the Spirit who calls and saves - and the person has to adopt an ethic.

I said to him, "Lord, the souls of those who did not do these works (but) on whom the power and Spirit descended, (will they be rejected?" He answered and said to me, "If) the Spirit (descended upon them), they will in any case be saved, and they will change (for the better). For the power will descend on every man, for without it no one can stand. And after they are born, then, when the Spirit of life increases and the power comes and strengthens that soul, no one can lead it astray with works of evil. But those on whom the counterfeit spirit descends are drawn by him and they go astray."

Here is the extent of the Spirit's grace: the Spirit will save those on whom it descends, even if they do not have the ethic. This heresy is adopted by many Protestant groups and completely foreign to orthodox bishops who taught that one must have the ethic in order to be acceptable to God.We should note that the orthodox are more elite than this Gnostic text in this regard - even people who don't keep the ethic are saved rather than only those that do.

And I said, "Lord, where will the souls of these go when they have come out of their flesh?" And he smiled and said to me, "The soul in which the power will become stronger than the counterfeit spirit, is strong and it flees from evil and, through the intervention of the incorruptible one, it is saved, and it is taken up to the rest of the aeons."

And I said, "Lord, those, however, who have not known to whom they belong, where will their souls be?" And he said to me, "In those, the despicable spirit has gained strength when they went astray. And he burdens the soul and draws it to the works of evil, and he casts it down into forgetfulness. And after it comes out of (the body), it is handed over to the authorities, who came into being through the archon, and they bind it with chains and cast it into prison, and consort with it until it is liberated from the forgetfulness and acquires knowledge. And if thus it becomes perfect, it is saved."

Redemption after death...

[yuvgotmel]

A_E,

I've noticed some of your posts lately, which seem to indicate, at least to me, that you might also be interested in this particular book:

http://www.amazon.com/Not-His-Image-.../dp/193149892X
"Not in His Image: Gnostic Vision, Sacred Ecology, and the Future of Belief" by John Lash

You can also download three hours worth of a radio recording with author John Lash here:

2006-02-16 - Hour 2 - Coast to Coast AM with George Noory
Scholar and mythologist John Lash shares revelations about aliens and UFOs that he gleaned from his research of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi texts. — 13,870 KB
2006-02-16 - Hour 3 - Coast to Coast AM with George Noory
Scholar and mythologist John Lash shares revelations about aliens and UFOs that he gleaned from his research of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi texts. — 13,803 KB
2006-02-16 - Hour 4 - Coast to Coast AM with George Noory
Scholar and mythologist John Lash shares revelations about aliens and UFOs that he gleaned from his research of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi texts. — 12,986 KB

You might also be interested in this website concerning the Gnostic interpretation of the Archons (which are thought to be the equivalent of the modern-day "extraterrestrials" or what the New Testament terms "powers and principalities").

http://www.metahistory.org/AlienIntrusion.php

Also here is a recent news article from The Canadian National Newspaper (online) concerning Gnosticism and ETs/UFOs:

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/hom.../21/01414.html

[angellous_evangellous]

Thanks.

[yuvgotmel]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Thanks.

You're welcome.

[Random]

AE, you have a wife, right? I assume so.

She is a woman, and through her womb new life comes into this world, this material realm.

If you were to adopt the Gnostic worldview that matter and body are evil and the observable creation is wrought of the deeds of a diabolical god, how would you explain to her that bringing life into the world-system of the Demiurge is obscene and sinful?

I'll wager you could never convince her of that. Every woman is innocently delighted to bring life into the world, rightly.

Gnosticism reduces women to mere facilitators of an evil system beyond human control. That is its deepest flaw that I percieve, and one irreconcillable with our common humanity.

DO you have children, AE?

What suffering it would be to teach them of an evil world and make them powerless in the face of a malevolent creator.

Do you understand my point here? I think you might, you're a bright man.

Any spirituality that negates life-positivity on some level is a contagion to the true Spirit, and that is Love.

But that is only my opinion...

[yuvgotmel]

Originally Posted by Random

Gnosticism reduces women to mere facilitators of an evil system beyond human control. That is its deepest flaw that I percieve, and one irreconcillable with our common humanity.

WHOA... Stop the show!

Gnosticism extols Sophia, a female!!!

Holy moly... you are so wrong to think that Gnosticism reduces female anything!

Oh my goodness!

If you want to read more about Sophia from REAL CLASSIC GNOSTICS, here is a link:
http://www.gnostic-church.org/

I used to be a council member of this church, which is both a real church and an online gathering. The AGCA was started by a professor at a university in Virginia.

[Random]

Originally Posted by yuvgotmel

WHOA... Stop the show!

Gnosticism extols Sophia, a female!!!

Holy moly... you are so wrong to think that Gnosticism reduces female anything!

Oh my goodness!

If you want to read more about Sophia from REAL CLASSIC GNOSTICS, here is a link:
http://www.gnostic-church.org/

I used to be a council member of this church, which is both a real church and an online gathering. The AGCA was started by a professor at a university in Virginia.

I am aware of the Sophia aspect. It does not change the implications of Gnostic beliefs if examined thoroughly with the intellect.