Religious Education Forum  

Welcome to Religious Forums
Welcome Guest to ReligiousForums.com . You are currently not registered. When you become registered you will be able to interact with our large base of already registered users discussing topics. Some annoying Ads will also disappear when you register. Registering doesn't cost a thing and only takes a few seconds. We provide areas to chat and debate all World Religions. Please go to our register page!

Home Who's Online Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Religious Education Forum / Discuss Individual Religions / Abrahamic Religions / Christianity
Sitemap Popular RF Forums REGISTER Search Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-19-2007, 09:10 PM
angellous_evangellous's Avatar
angellous_evangellous Offline
Religion: Christian
Title:pater familias
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D/FW, TX
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,803
Frubals: 3842342
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
Default Early Christians Against Abortion

In my reading I have found a few early Christians against abortion.

Here are a few quotes from early writers - all available from www.earlychristianwritings.com.

Clement of Alexandria is quoting the extra-canonical Apocalypse of Peter:

"
1. From Clement of Alexandria's so-called Prophetical Extracts, a series of detached sentences excerpted from some larger work, generally supposed to be his Hypotyposes or Outlines:
a. (41.1) The Scripture saith that the children which have been exposed (by their parents) are delivered to a care-taking angel by whom they are educated, and made to grow up, and they shall be, it saith, as the faithful of an hundred years old are here (in this life). b. (41. 2) Wherefore also Peter in the Apocalypse saith: And a flash (lightning) of fire leaping from those children and smiting the eyes of the women.
2. Ibid. (48 . 1 ) The providence of God doth not light upon them only that are in the flesh. For example, Peter in the Apocalypse saith that the children born out of due time (abortively) that would have been of the better part (i. e. would have been saved if they had lived) -these are delivered to a care-taking angel, that they may partake of knowledge and obtain the better abode, having suffered what they would have suffered had they been in the body. But the others (i.e. those who would not have been saved, had they lived) shall only obtain salvation, as beings that have been injured and had mercy shown to them, and shall continue without torment, receiving that as a reward.

[But the milk of the mothers, flowing from their breasts and congealing, saith Peter in the Apocalypse, shall engender small beasts (snakes) devouring the flesh, and these running upon them devour them: teaching that the torments come to pass because of the sins (correspond to the sins).]

3. From the Symposium (ii.6) of Methodius of Olympus (third century). He does not name his source. Whence also we have received in inspired writings that children born untimely -even if they be the offspring of adultery- are delivered to care-taking angels. For if they had come into being contrary to the will and ordinance of that blessed nature of God, how could they have been delivered to angels to be nourished up in all repose and tranquillity? And how could they have confidently summoned their parents before the judgement seat of Christ to accuse them? saying: Thou, O Lord, didst not begrudge us this light that is common to all, but these exposed us to death, contemning thy commandment.

[The word rendered care-taking in these passages is a very rare one- [temelouchos, Gr.]: so rare that it was mistaken by later readers for the proper name of an angel, and we find an angel Temeluchus in Paul, John, and elsewhere. A similar case is that of the word Tartaruchus, keeper of hell, which is applied to angels in our Apocalypse, and is also taken in the Ethiopic version, in Paul, and in other writings, to be a proper name."]

NOTE: editorial notes are not mine. From http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...r-mrjames.html.
__________________
Obama loves Jesus - vote for the sake of Christ
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-30-2007, 07:26 PM
athanasius's Avatar
athanasius Offline
Religion: Catholic
Title:BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,598
Frubals: 99587
athanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant future
athanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant futureathanasius has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous View Post
In my reading I have found a few early Christians against abortion.

Here are a few quotes from early writers - all available from www.earlychristianwritings.com.

Clement of Alexandria is quoting the extra-canonical Apocalypse of Peter:

"
1. From Clement of Alexandria's so-called Prophetical Extracts, a series of detached sentences excerpted from some larger work, generally supposed to be his Hypotyposes or Outlines:
a. (41.1) The Scripture saith that the children which have been exposed (by their parents) are delivered to a care-taking angel by whom they are educated, and made to grow up, and they shall be, it saith, as the faithful of an hundred years old are here (in this life). b. (41. 2) Wherefore also Peter in the Apocalypse saith: And a flash (lightning) of fire leaping from those children and smiting the eyes of the women.
2. Ibid. (48 . 1 ) The providence of God doth not light upon them only that are in the flesh. For example, Peter in the Apocalypse saith that the children born out of due time (abortively) that would have been of the better part (i. e. would have been saved if they had lived) -these are delivered to a care-taking angel, that they may partake of knowledge and obtain the better abode, having suffered what they would have suffered had they been in the body. But the others (i.e. those who would not have been saved, had they lived) shall only obtain salvation, as beings that have been injured and had mercy shown to them, and shall continue without torment, receiving that as a reward.

[But the milk of the mothers, flowing from their breasts and congealing, saith Peter in the Apocalypse, shall engender small beasts (snakes) devouring the flesh, and these running upon them devour them: teaching that the torments come to pass because of the sins (correspond to the sins).]

3. From the Symposium (ii.6) of Methodius of Olympus (third century). He does not name his source. Whence also we have received in inspired writings that children born untimely -even if they be the offspring of adultery- are delivered to care-taking angels. For if they had come into being contrary to the will and ordinance of that blessed nature of God, how could they have been delivered to angels to be nourished up in all repose and tranquillity? And how could they have confidently summoned their parents before the judgement seat of Christ to accuse them? saying: Thou, O Lord, didst not begrudge us this light that is common to all, but these exposed us to death, contemning thy commandment.

[The word rendered care-taking in these passages is a very rare one- [temelouchos, Gr.]: so rare that it was mistaken by later readers for the proper name of an angel, and we find an angel Temeluchus in Paul, John, and elsewhere. A similar case is that of the word Tartaruchus, keeper of hell, which is applied to angels in our Apocalypse, and is also taken in the Ethiopic version, in Paul, and in other writings, to be a proper name."]

NOTE: editorial notes are not mine. From http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...r-mrjames.html.

Do not forget about the Didache Ad 70, where there is a direct command against abortion for all Christians. "thou shall not procure abortion, nor destroy a newborn child"(Didache 2,2)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-09-2007, 10:34 AM
angellous_evangellous's Avatar
angellous_evangellous Offline
Religion: Christian
Title:pater familias
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D/FW, TX
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,803
Frubals: 3842342
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by athanasius View Post
Do not forget about the Didache Ad 70, where there is a direct command against abortion for all Christians. "thou shall not procure abortion, nor destroy a newborn child"(Didache 2,2)
Yes... there's a few other quotes from the apostolic fathers related to this issue.
__________________
Obama loves Jesus - vote for the sake of Christ
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-09-2007, 11:07 AM
Dream Angel's Avatar
Dream Angel Offline
Religion: LDS
Title:Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: UK
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,722
Frubals: 210516
Dream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond repute
Dream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond reputeDream Angel has a reputation beyond repute
Default

What do you mean by "Early Christians", sure the earliest of christians didnt even know what abortion was?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-09-2007, 12:24 PM
angellous_evangellous's Avatar
angellous_evangellous Offline
Religion: Christian
Title:pater familias
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D/FW, TX
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,803
Frubals: 3842342
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by laws28186 View Post
What do you mean by "Early Christians", sure the earliest of christians didnt even know what abortion was?
I'm not sure what you mean by this...
__________________
Obama loves Jesus - vote for the sake of Christ
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-09-2007, 02:07 PM
Terrywoodenpic's Avatar
Terrywoodenpic Offline
Religion: Anglican-heretic
Title:Oldest Heretic
Kindness Award:  - Issue reason: The kindness award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved.  Congrats. 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,026
Frubals: 566624
Terrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on trees
Terrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on trees
Terrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on treesTerrywoodenpic thinks frubals grow on trees
Default

I suspect the writings were also including those newborn infants exposed to die.
which was not uncommon through out history, and is even practised today.
__________________
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-09-2007, 02:08 PM
angellous_evangellous's Avatar
angellous_evangellous Offline
Religion: Christian
Title:pater familias
Prolific Poster Award:  - Issue reason: 10,000 posts Scholarship Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to your peers and is well deserved. Humor Award:  - Issue reason: This award has been given to you by your peers and is well deserved. Article Award:  - Issue reason:  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: D/FW, TX
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,803
Frubals: 3842342
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
angellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whoreangellous_evangellous is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrywoodenpic View Post
I suspect the writings were also including those newborn infants exposed to die.
which was not uncommon through out history, and is even practised today.
Of course. It was called "exposing" children.
__________________
Obama loves Jesus - vote for the sake of Christ
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-09-2007, 02:56 PM
Mestemia's Avatar
Mestemia Offline
Religion: Girls on Trampolines
Title:Advocatus Diaboli
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michiana
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,849
Frubals: 1963206
Mestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal Whore
Mestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal Whore
Mestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal WhoreMestemia is a Frubal Whore
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by athanasius View Post
Do not forget about the Didache Ad 70, where there is a direct command against abortion for all Christians. "thou shall not procure abortion, nor destroy a newborn child"(Didache 2,2)
I wonder what it actually says.

abortive 1394, from L. abortivus "causing abortion," from abortus, pp. of aboriri "disappear, miscarry," from ab- "amiss" + oriri "appear, be born, arise" (see orchestra); the compound word used in L. for deaths, miscarriages, sunsets, etc. The L. verb for "to produce