Christians: Separation of Church and State (moral, beliefs, churches, atheist)

[Nick Soapdish]

How many Christians believe that there should be a separation of church and state? By this I mean that the government should not have an official religion and that there should be no organizational or financial ties between government entities and churches.

[ChrisP]

D) None of the above. I would prefer the existence of neither. Too many rules in both camps.

[sojourner]

I voted yes, by the criteria set forth in your post. BUT...I think there's a big difference between financial separation and what's going on now. We're supposed to have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. To keep religious expression out of public places not only runs contrary to First Amendment free-speech rights, it also does not follow the spirit of the separation clause, as laid out by the writers of the Constitution. I also think it's wrong for religious politicians to use government in order to push their own religiously-motivated agendas, such as the "constitutional amendment banning gay marriage."

[BrandonE]

Originally Posted by sojourner

I voted yes, by the criteria set forth in your post. BUT...I think there's a big difference between financial separation and what's going on now. We're supposed to have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. To keep religious expression out of public places not only runs contrary to First Amendment free-speech rights, it also does not follow the spirit of the separation clause, as laid out by the writers of the Constitution.

I've been watching this thread waiting for something like this. I'd be interested to hear what you think is appropriate and inappropriate, and the reasoning behind your judgements. If you could give your opinion on contemporary disputes in this area, that'd be great. For example, your opinion of the 10 commandments disputes, Judge Roy Moore, and/or the pledge of allegiance dispute. I don't mean any hostility at all, I'd just like to hear your opinions and reasons, because I imagine that they're well thought out, only from a different perspective than mine. Thanks.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by atofel

How many Christians believe that there should be a separation of church and state? By this I mean that the government should not have an official religion and that there should be no organizational or financial ties between government entities and churches.

Liberty cannot exist without the seperation of church and state. I think that we should have both freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion -frankly, the difference seems to be artificial.

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Liberty cannot exist without the seperation of church and state. I think that we should have both freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion -frankly, the difference seems to be artificial.

I disagree. This nation existed in liberty until the Supreme Court changed its direction and began clamping down on religious expression after the turn of the 20th century. Freedom of expression in no way gives us latitude to make law from a certain religious perspective. We can be a Christian nation while espousing tolerance and freedom of expression for all religious beliefs.

"Christian nation" does not = "theocracy."

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by BrandonE

I've been watching this thread waiting for something like this. I'd be interested to hear what you think is appropriate and inappropriate, and the reasoning behind your judgements. If you could give your opinion on contemporary disputes in this area, that'd be great. For example, your opinion of the 10 commandments disputes, Judge Roy Moore, and/or the pledge of allegiance dispute. I don't mean any hostility at all, I'd just like to hear your opinions and reasons, because I imagine that they're well thought out, only from a different perspective than mine. Thanks.

The distinctions many of us make between "biased" and "unbiased" judments, opinions, policies, etc. is really non-existent. It is assumed that only a judgment, opinion, policy, etc. that is devoid of religious influence can be "unbiased." However, in truth, all judment, opinion, policy, etc. is biased from some POV, be it religious, atheistic, or whatever. We are biased because we are human, and to villify religion is to treat a symptom, not the cause. Most of the time, our biases are kept in check.

That said, I do think that some attempt to take their personal biases too far. Here we have Michael Nudow (sp?) taking his atheism too far in attempting to change the Pledge. Here we have Bush taking his religious primciples too far in attempting to label stem cell research as "immoral." When one's own principles are touted as absolutes that everyone must espouse, that's wrong and (I think) unconstitutional.

[michel]

For me, there is no doubt that I should answer that the Church and the State should be separate. Just as religion -per se- has no place in science, I believe it should have no link to state affairs; humanist morality is much better equipped to use as a tool for government.