Question about the canonical status of various OT books (reject, gospel)

[Fluffy]

This is really a question about Orthodox Christianity but since RF splits up the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox and since this concerns both denominations, I decided to put it up in the more general section instead. If anyone, Christian or otherwise, has info that might help me then I would appreciate it.

I am trying to work out specifically what books are part of the various Christian canons. Wikipedia is a little unclear on this but so far, I have established the following:

Roman Catholics accept Tobit, Judith, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Wisdon, Ben Sira, Baruch as well as additions to Daniel and Esther.

Eastern Orthodoxy accepts all of these books and in addition 1 Esdras, 3 Maccabees, 4 Maccabees, Book Of Odes and Psalm 151.

Oriental Orthodoxy accepts the books from both of these lists but also includes 2 Esdras, Jubilees and Enoch.

Is all of this so far accurate?

Russian Orthodoxy is also mentioned to accept 2 Esdras but it is not mentioned in any of the other lists. I assume they must also accept 1 Esdras but does this mean they accept all of the books of Eastern Orthodoxy with the addition of 2 Esdras or is it more complicated than that? I was under the assumption that Russian Orthodoxy was part of Eastern Orthodoxy so this variation confused me. Do the other churches considered part of Eastern Orthodoxy also contain variations like this?

Am I right in assuming that the Ethopian Orthodox Church contains the widest canon of any of the Christian traditions? Does anyone have a link to a list of their complete canon. So far I can only find links to their "narrow" canon.

Are there any other variations to the main 39 books accepted by almost all Christian traditions? Are their any Christian traditions (no matter how obscure) that reject any of these 39 core books either in part or in their entirety?

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

This is really a question about Orthodox Christianity but since RF splits up the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox and since this concerns both denominations, I decided to put it up in the more general section instead. If anyone, Christian or otherwise, has info that might help me then I would appreciate it.

I am trying to work out specifically what books are part of the various Christian canons. Wikipedia is a little unclear on this but so far, I have established the following:

Roman Catholics accept Tobit, Judith, 1 Maccabees, 2 Maccabees, Wisdon, Ben Sira, Baruch as well as additions to Daniel and Esther.

Eastern Orthodoxy accepts all of these books and in addition 1 Esdras, 3 Maccabees, 4 Maccabees, Book Of Odes and Psalm 151.

Oriental Orthodoxy accepts the books from both of these lists but also includes 2 Esdras, Jubilees and Enoch.

Is all of this so far accurate?

Russian Orthodoxy is also mentioned to accept 2 Esdras but it is not mentioned in any of the other lists. I assume they must also accept 1 Esdras but does this mean they accept all of the books of Eastern Orthodoxy with the addition of 2 Esdras or is it more complicated than that? I was under the assumption that Russian Orthodoxy was part of Eastern Orthodoxy so this variation confused me. Do the other churches considered part of Eastern Orthodoxy also contain variations like this?

Am I right in assuming that the Ethopian Orthodox Church contains the widest canon of any of the Christian traditions? Does anyone have a link to a list of their complete canon. So far I can only find links to their "narrow" canon.

Are there any other variations to the main 39 books accepted by almost all Christian traditions? Are their any Christian traditions (no matter how obscure) that reject any of these 39 core books either in part or in their entirety?

All of the books accepted by the Russians are accepted by all Orthodox churches but they may not necessarily be in an individual church's canon as such (i.e. the book may not generally appear in a copy of the Bible printed in a particular country). We really do not have a single fixed canon in the way that Protestants do, and never have had.

Your list of Orthodox accepted books is not exactly accurate. You've missed Prayer of Manessah, the fact that some of the combined books in the RC canon remain separate in ours and the fact that the names are often different (this is particularly true in the area of the Esdras. 4 Maccabees and the Prayer of Manessah are generally also found in an appendix.

Here is a very good resource that compares the Orthodox (most OOs use the same canon as we do), Protestant, RC and Ethiopian narrow canons (Ethiopians are OO as I'm sure you're aware):

http://www.geocities.com/trvalentine...x/otbooks.html

The Ethiopian broad canon is the same as the narrow as far as the OT is concerned. It just has additional NT books (exactly which I'm uncertain).

Hope this helps.

James

[Fluffy]

Thanks very much for your answers James, I was hoping you might see this thread!

All of the books accepted by the Russians are accepted by all Orthodox churches but they may not necessarily be in an individual church's canon as such (i.e. the book may not generally appear in a copy of the Bible printed in a particular country). We really do not have a single fixed canon in the way that Protestants do, and never have had.

Okay cool that makes a lot of sense.

Your list of Orthodox accepted books is not exactly accurate. You've missed Prayer of Manessah, the fact that some of the combined books in the RC canon remain separate in ours and the fact that the names are often different (this is particularly true in the area of the Esdras. 4 Maccabees and the Prayer of Manessah are generally also found in an appendix.

Generally I have found that the Prayer of Manessah was included in the Book of Odes although I assumed by the fact that this inclusion was mentioned that it must therefore be kept seperate in some Bibles.

To be honest with you I haven't yet got my head around the difference in naming of a lot of these books especially Esdras of which each book appears to be referred to by at least 3 different, overlapping numbers depending on which tradition you follow. However, I am not so much concerned about the names as long as the content is vaguely similar. So for example, I consider there to be at least 7 seperate books that share the title of "Maccabees" since the 3 from Ethiopia appear to be completely different from the 4 used by the EO. On the otherhand, their split of Proverbs into 2 seperate books is not so much of importance to me at the moment. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible until my brain can deal with all these extra details .

The Ethiopian broad canon is the same as the narrow as far as the OT is concerned. It just has additional NT books (exactly which I'm uncertain).

Excellent, thank you. Looking back on it this should have been obvious since all these OT sites would have listed the broader canon as comparison but since it has no impact on the OT, this exclusion is understandable.

http://www.geocities.com/trvalentine...x/otbooks.html

A very useful site. I was afraid it was one of the ones I had already come across but it is certainly not and much clearer as well.

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Russian Orthodoxy is also mentioned to accept 2 Esdras but it is not mentioned in any of the other lists. I assume they must also accept 1 Esdras but does this mean they accept all of the books of Eastern Orthodoxy with the addition of 2 Esdras or is it more complicated than that? I was under the assumption that Russian Orthodoxy was part of Eastern Orthodoxy so this variation confused me. Do the other churches considered part of Eastern Orthodoxy also contain variations like this?

It's just not that big a deal in Eastern Orthodoxy. Slavonic Bibles are more likely than Greek Bibles to include 3 Esdras; Greek Bibles are more likely than Slavonic Bibles to include 4 Maccabees.

In Orthodoxy, the scripture readings for services, found in the Evangelion (Gospel), Apostolos (Epistles), Psalter, and Prophetologion, are more important. Private devotional scripture reading is likely to follow the appointed readings or to be concentrated on the Gospels and the Psalms.

The books of Esdras or Ezra are kind of confusing because there are several different practices for organizing and naming these books. Here's a table showing the equivalent names:

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Am I right in assuming that the Ethopian Orthodox Church contains the widest canon of any of the Christian traditions?

It's probably a toss-up between the Ethiopians and the Mormons.

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Does anyone have a link to a list of their complete canon. So far I can only find links to their "narrow" canon.

No, but I believe it includes books of church order -- collections of canons and such -- and their own version of Josephus. The whole "broader" canon wouldn't be printed in an Ethiopian Bible.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

It's just not that big a deal in Eastern Orthodoxy. Slavonic Bibles are more likely than Greek Bibles to include 3 Esdras; Greek Bibles are more likely than Slavonic Bibles to include 4 Maccabees.

And, as usual, the Romanians are sitting in the middle (just like we manage to have Byzantine chant that can sound rather Slavonic - despite Romanian being Latin!). My Romanian Bible (the official one published by the Romanian Church) has all the books of both the Greek and Slavonic traditions. In fact, it's organised exactly as in the table on the page I previously linked to. But, as you say, it's not a big deal. No Orthodox Christian is going to dispute the status of a book that appears in the Greek or Slavonic canons just because it might not be in their own copy, and most English speaking Orthodox seem to be looking forward to the Orthodox study Bible OT, which will have them all (due out Pascha 2007).

James

[Fluffy]

most English speaking Orthodox seem to be looking forward to the Orthodox study Bible OT, which will have them all (due out Pascha 2007).

I'll add that one to my wish list.

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

I'll add that one to my wish list.

If you want, I'll try to remember to PM you as soon as I know that the complete OSB is finished (the NT has been out for years, but it's the same as everyone else's just with the addition of Orthodox study notes). Pascha next year falls on 8th April so, unusually, is the same time as western Easter.

James