why doctors? (ritual, reject, Earth, choice, Isaiah)

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by Christiangirl0909

Well, I don't know about the "general Christian view" but my view is that science is good, It is very helpful in finding cures for diseases, as well as making possible websites such as Religious Forums.

well, okay

Originally Posted by CG

Ummm...well, you did post the thread. I don't know what you were expecting besides answers to questions.

.... i'd say something, but then i'd be just like Jay, and that would make me a *****

.... anyway, thats nice.

Can you quote it scripturally where God in the OT says that you should look to doctors for medical help? Can you find it where God says to rely on his strength for all things only? hmm....

[I Panicked! At the Disco]

Can you quote it scripturally where God in the OT says that you should look to doctors for medical help?

Can you find where it doesn't?

And why only in the Old Testament?

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by Christiangirl0909

Can you find where it doesn't?

And why only in the Old Testament?

I'm asking because I dont know, CG

OT because in the NT people are getting confused with Yeshua's healing miracles. This is not what the thread is about.

[Defij]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

*giggles* Yes, i know. I used to be Christian

It's not just publicity, its an aspect that's being taught at my school! I go to a private christian school... and most of what they teach, imo, is crap. But if anyone actually believes like they do, I'd like to smack them up the head and say... "how does that make ANY sense?" *shrugs* Anyway, I do realize that the majority of Christians in the world aren't this anal. This question was more directed at those who do have a rather large stick up their butts. *smiles*

Jesus is not God. Yeshua is the son of God. Yet, he is part of the trinity, and NOT the father. I'm not talking of Yeshua's miracles, I'm JUST discussing OT God.


*giggles* I know who Luke is

Did Luke ever meet Yeshua? (no)

Let's stick to the OT. Think of Job.

Okay, good to know you have the basic foundation of knowledge then. So yes, let’s discuss the Old Testament. Job? Well you DO know that there probably never was a real “Job” person. The book of Job is simply a Didactic Narrative (Didactic is a fancy word that us Biblical Scholars use to mean “teaching”) that the post-Babylonian exilic editors of the Old Testament wrote in order to show that the Deuteronomical Principle isn’t always correct. What is the Deuteronomical principle you might ask? Well it, in a nutshell, is the theological view that if one obeys covenant (Mosaic) then YHWH will bless them. If they disobey covenant then YHWH will bring curses upon them. This was a major revelation that developed during the exile. While the Jewish people were in captivity they had a chance to look back and question “Why are we here? What did we do, or not do, that landed us in this predicament?” So what comes out of this is the strong deuteronomical view of the world. We see this in the books that were edited by these Jewish Priests (Judges, Samuel, Kings, Chronicles, etc).

So when they got set free, there were two very strong theological views held by the people of Judah. The first we find reflected in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah. In this the deuteronomical principle is emphasized, and in fact, they plan to getting right with YHWH by building a wall, isolating themselves from the rest of the world, kicking out their non-Jewish wives and husband (Ezra is the only book in the Bible that actually commands divorce), etc.

The counter view of this view are found in the books of Jonah, Ruth and Job. In Jonah, we find YHWH telling Jonah to go preach to the Assyrians (again, this is not a “literal” story, but rather another Didactic Narrative, please don’t take the whole “fish” thing literal! It’s sad so many people get caught up on that when it’s such a small part of the story.) Anyways, this book was edited to show that YHWH didn’t want “isolation” but rather to go out to the nations. Ruth is a combat against Ezra and Nehemiah’s radical nationalism in that Ruth was a Moabite, and the editor of the book even goes as far as to show that Ruth is in the lineage of David! What a smack in the face of the nationalistic believers, eh?!

And then there is Job. I know I took a long round about way of getting here, but now you can see the historical context and occasion of the book. This book was written to challenge the deuteronomical principle. We see Job, a pillar of deuteronomical living, being punished (seemingly) by YHWH. That is why, for the vast majority of the book, he gets railed by his friends for being a “sinner”. There must be something he is doing that is causing him to break covenant with YHWH. We see at the end of the book, when YHWH shows up, he tells Job that his friends were wrong, and the real reason for Job’s troubles have nothing to do with breaking covenant, so in that we see the theological point of view of the Jewish editors.

So there you have Job in a nutshell. It is intellectually dishonest to use the book of Job as so many Christians and non-Christians have over the years. When you see it in it’s proper historical context, we can understand what it is and is not trying to tell us about God.

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by Defij

Okay, good to know you have the basic foundation of knowledge then. So yes, let’s discuss the Old Testament. Job? Well you DO know that there probably never was a real “Job” person. The book of Job is simply a Didactic Narrative (Didactic is a fancy word that us Biblical Scholars use to mean “teaching”) that the post-Babylonian exilic editors of the Old Testament wrote in order to show that the Deuteronomical Principle isn’t always correct. What is the Deuteronomical principle you might ask? Well it, in a nutshell, is the theological view that if one obeys covenant (Mosaic) then YHWH will bless them. If they disobey covenant then YHWH will bring curses upon them. This was a major revelation that developed during the exile. While the Jewish people were in captivity they had a chance to look back and question “Why are we here? What did we do, or not do, that landed us in this predicament?” So what comes out of this is the strong deuteronomical view of the world. We see this in the books that were edited by these Jewish Priests (Judges, Samuel, Kings, Chronicles, etc).

So when they got set free, there were two very strong theological views held by the people of Judah. The first we find reflected in the books of Ezra and Nehemiah. In this the deuteronomical principle is emphasized, and in fact, they plan to getting right with YHWH by building a wall, isolating themselves from the rest of the world, kicking out their non-Jewish wives and husband (Ezra is the only book in the Bible that actually commands divorce), etc.

The counter view of this view are found in the books of Jonah, Ruth and Job. In Jonah, we find YHWH telling Jonah to go preach to the Assyrians (again, this is not a “literal” story, but rather another Didactic Narrative, please don’t take the whole “fish” thing literal! It’s sad so many people get caught up on that when it’s such a small part of the story.) Anyways, this book was edited to show that YHWH didn’t want “isolation” but rather to go out to the nations. Ruth is a combat against Ezra and Nehemiah’s radical nationalism in that Ruth was a Moabite, and the editor of the book even goes as far as to show that Ruth is in the lineage of David! What a smack in the face of the nationalistic believers, eh?!

And then there is Job. I know I took a long round about way of getting here, but now you can see the historical context and occasion of the book. This book was written to challenge the deuteronomical principle. We see Job, a pillar of deuteronomical living, being punished (seemingly) by YHWH. That is why, for the vast majority of the book, he gets railed by his friends for being a “sinner”. There must be something he is doing that is causing him to break covenant with YHWH. We see at the end of the book, when YHWH shows up, he tells Job that his friends were wrong, and the real reason for Job’s troubles have nothing to do with breaking covenant, so in that we see the theological point of view of the Jewish editors.

So there you have Job in a nutshell. It is intellectually dishonest to use the book of Job as so many Christians and non-Christians have over the years. When you see it in it’s proper historical context, we can understand what it is and is not trying to tell us about God.

I'm surprised you know all that!!! Most Christians I know dont have a clue! *hugs* Frubals to you good sir!

Can we stick with the OP though?

[Defij]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

I'm surprised you know all that!!! Most Christians I know dont have a clue! *hugs* Frubals to you good sir!

Can we stick with the OP though?

Excuse my ignorance, as I am new to this forum, but what is the "OP"?

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by Defij

Excuse my ignorance, as I am new to this forum, but what is the "OP"?

original post, dear sir

[Defij]

Originally Posted by Buttons*

original post, dear sir

Oh gotcha. You know I actually realized that was probably what OP was as soon as I submitted my last post, but this is way off topic....

Anyways, so yeah what was the debate here all about?! **scratches head**

[Buttons*]

Originally Posted by Defij

Oh gotcha. You know I actually realized that was probably what OP was as soon as I submitted my last post, but this is way off topic....

Anyways, so yeah what was the debate here all about?! **scratches head**

Should Christians rely on God or on Doctors?

If just on God, why?

If on doctors, why? (because doctors study science, and some Christians have a problem with scientific studies and theories)

If both, why?

[dawny0826]

panda says: (8:24:29 PM)
okay, the christians say that only god is their healer... and it's gods decision to make or take life

This Christian says that...

God is my SPIRITUAL healer and God is more than able to physically heal me.

He's blessed my life with doctors and physicians who are trained to take care of a lot of physical ailments that I may encounter.

Doesn't change the fact that Christ is the GREATEST physician.

panda says: (8:24:36 PM)
so why do christians have doctors?

For the same reason that we have fast food workers, bus drivers, teachers, police officers and blah blah blah.

panda says: (8:24:52 PM)
either way, you're altering life

We were never told that we aren't to ALTER life.

We're TOTALLY supposed to get out there and alter lives...by spreading the gospel and such.

panda says: (8:25:01 PM)
and therefore messing up with gods plan

Or maybe used within God's plan.

panda says: (8:25:42 PM)
no, but if you give it over to god, then why trust it with man?

Your faith doesn't necessarily rest with man...your faith rests with the one GREATER than the man.

panda says: (8:27:16 PM)
but then why do people bomb abortion clinics and things like that?

(Because they're cuckoo, cuckoo, cuckoo. (hee hee))

Becky Boo says: (8:27:28 PM)
because they are retarded

You said it, girl.

panda says: (8:27:50 PM)
one of the reasons for pro life is that they're altering life

No...because they're ENDING life. Big difference between altering a life and ending a life.