Did Jesus abolish the law? (Jesus Christ, Earth, gospel, Kingdom)

[michel]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

Abolish or fulfill?

Jesus fulfilled the law and so in reality "abolished" it.

The Old Testament was a perfect contract. Just like a mortgage is a contract, it had certain obligations to be met. Jesus met those obligations and completely fulfilled ALL of the requirements. So just like a mortgage, it became "useless" except as an historical piece. The book of Romans REALLY brings this home, especially chapters 2-10. Galations 3,4 & 5 are a good study as well.

Galations 3:23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. 26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Thank you NetDoc; that is an answer I can understand. Well, there has to be a first....!

[Scuba Pete]

Seyorni,

One of the central doctrines to Judaism is the concept of "Clean/Unclean". Much of the law centered around that. Take a peak at what Peter went through here:

Acts 10:9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." 14 "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean." 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." 16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven. 17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate.

While the meaning is ultra clear to us reading the passage, the concept was SO radical, that even after this miraculous vision, Peter is STILL unsure of what he heard. I love Peter! He can be dense as a brick sometimes and yet his heart just wants to follow his Lord! BTW, if you were to translate his name to a more contemporary one it would be "Rock Johnson". It fits!

[Seyorni]

So were the lizards made Kosher or not? I can understand Peter's confusion in 10:17.

Should we alter our diet and conduct based on the seizure/hallucination of a 2,000+ year old person whose report fortuitously found its way into the Bible?

If I were to derive truths from seizures they'd probably increase my meds....

[Scuba Pete]

Kosher has to do with "clean/unclean" and is part of the Mosaical Law.

The Law of Grace does not concern itself with "Kosher".

Please... you asked and I answered. I certainly don't need you to insult me or the scriptures in order to proseletyse me to your way of thinking. Thanks in advance.

[No*s]

Originally Posted by Natural Submission

Could the Christians of this site please provide from the verses of the Bible why you claim Jesus DID abolish the law outside of the context of crucifixtion. Thank you.

The Law is authoritative, but the issue is its interpretation and application. Without going into too much detail (I haven't the time the next couple of days), the regulations in the Law are given for our spiritual edification, but they must be interpreted and applied. Not all of it applies in every culture. Some of it changes with the circumstances.

On the most obvious level, there would be nothing immoral about lighting a fire on a Sabbath day in Alaska during the winter or fixing one's heater if it went out. Some things simply have to be done, and adhering to it as a rulebook can be fatal in some areas. The example from the Gospels is an ox dropped in a well.

Others are completely obselete. Why is it wrong to mix two types of fabric or sow two types of seed in a field? It's because at the time of the writing, the fertility cults used that as part of their religious practices. To keep Israelite worship separate, the Law forbids it.

Other practices have simply changed their symbolism. Circumcision, for instance, was altered in the Church, but it still applies. Prior to Christ, the Holy Spirit and God worked externally upon people, and the sign was external. After Pentecost, the Church has the capacity to give the indwelling Spirit. With this change, the circumcision changed from circumcision of the foreskin to circumcision of the heart. The sign changed with the situation, and baptism is now circumcision for Christians (that's part of the reason conservative groups baptize infants).

The food laws similarly changed. They are guides to aide us in spiritual growth. When Christianity spread beyond the Jewish boundries, they became a hinderance and lost ground. The theology for this was laid down by the Lord, who asserted that it wasn't what went into a man that caused him to be unclean but what proceeded from him. The dietary laws of the Old Testament were in place to help with the spiritual life of the people, and the Church has developed similar ascetic practices to aid us in the world, but these adapt to the culture and situation, and even there, they are rather pastoral.

In other places, it's strictly a matter of interpretation. The Law says "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth," but this wasn't intended as license. It was a limitation on vengeance. Christ in speaking on it taught turn the other cheek. He tended to teach that much of the Law was given on account of the "hardness" of the people's hearts. Matthew 5-7 contains several such tidbits as this.

This is a Christian approach to the Law. For us, it is still authoritative, but it's a schoolmaster. It gives lessons and guidance but isn't the equivilent of a rule book. It's more of a guide. So, the Law is still important to Christians. It is essential, but it's also an issue of interpretation.

[fromthe heart]

Pardon me...jumping in here with a question...Didn't Jesus still say we were to obey the laws of the two commandments Matt.20:37-40 and didn't Jesus speak about the law in respect to how you treat your mom and dad, and about stealing and coveting??? and the rest of the last of the commandments? Doesn't that say we are to still obey the commandments so that others can know us by our fruits?

[No*s]

Originally Posted by fromthe heart

Pardon me...jumping in here with a question...Didn't Jesus still say we were to obey the laws of the two commandments Matt.20:37-40 and didn't Jesus speak about the law in respect to how you treat your mom and dad, and about stealing and coveting??? and the rest of the last of the commandments? Doesn't that say we are to still obey the commandments so that others can know us by our fruits?

Yes. It's a matter of interpretation as I outlined above. Those groups that want to ignore the Law or relegate it to a status of unimportance ignore the plain teachings of Christ.

[Scuba Pete]

No... Jesus fulfilled the law. It no longer binds Christians. BTW, I can't find Matthew 20:37-40!!!

[No*s]

Originally Posted by NetDoc

No... Jesus fulfilled the law. It no longer binds Christians. BTW, I can't find Matthew 20:37-40!!!

Well, I don't have a Mt. 20.37-40, but I do have 5.17ff. :

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets; I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingcom of heaven.

He then proceeds to teach on its interpretation. He's very clear, though, that any person who teaches people to break the commandments is least in the Kingdom of Heaven. The Law is a spiritual guide and schoolmaster. It has not been done away with. We only have a new interpretation under Christ, who has brought to us the Law of Grace.