Women in the early church (Jesus, choice, mission, churches) - Page 2

sojourner · #11 05-20-2008, 10:53 AM

True, but I also think that, because women were obviously highly regarded, there has to be some other explanation for why misogyny appears in the NT, other than "because it was a cultural norm for them." If it were a cultural norm, they would not have allowed females to lead. I really think it has more to do with a desire to conform, at least somewhat, with a culture that had put pressure on them. The Church would have had no credibility with governments, if it had female leaders.

angellous_evangellous · #12 05-20-2008, 11:01 AM

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Originally Posted by sojourner

True, but I also think that, because women were obviously highly regarded, there has to be some other explanation for why misogyny appears in the NT, other than "because it was a cultural norm for them." If it were a cultural norm, they would not have allowed females to lead.

Think about this carefully, soj:

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Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

In light of common misogyny in moral philosophy and the patronage of women (gifts to cities and churches, etc) and their participation in philosophy in spite of it, it is perfectly natural that the Bible espouse some of this philosophy and yet have female leaders.

The norm in the ancient world is explicit in the NT. There are women who follow Jesus, providing for his and the disciples' needs - just like in normal society, where women give money for cities to build aqueducts, statues, and buildings. There are women who give gifts to Paul (Philippians 4). There are female prophets. There are injuctions for women to be silent, and that they should be obedient wives, etc - just like moral philosophy.

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I really think it has more to do with a desire to conform, at least somewhat, with a culture that had put pressure on them. The Church would have had no credibility with governments, if it had female leaders.

But the governments had female leaders.... powerful women had influence in many major cities... especially Rome, Corinth, and the Greek East. I don't think that the evidence supports this theory in the slightest, at least until Constantine.

Heneni · #13 05-20-2008, 12:27 PM

Hello everyone!

13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Very controversial statement..though the truth. A women should not have authority over her husband. She must not try to lead HIM. But if a women is in leadership in the church, she is not in a leading position over her husband. Her role as a leader in the church would certainly not infringe on her submission to her husband.

Heneni

angellous_evangellous · #14 05-20-2008, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heneni

Hello everyone!

13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Very controversial statement..though the truth. A women should not have authority over her husband. She must not try to lead HIM. But if a women is in leadership in the church, she is not in a leading position over her husband. Her role as a leader in the church would certainly not infringe on her submission to her husband.

Heneni

This is why Mrs A_E will alwayswash the dishes in my house.

And be barefooted.

Dammit.

angellous_evangellous · #15 05-20-2008, 02:52 PM

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Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

This is why Mrs A_E will alwayswash the dishes in my house.

And be barefooted.

Dammit.

He only shows his natural superiority when provoked.

"I was created first, b****."

Heneni · #16 05-20-2008, 03:02 PM

LOL

I dont consider submission to your husband as a bad thing. I consider it a form of trust. I believe that when a women submits to her husband, god blesses her for it.

That is why its important to marry a christian, who has a relationship with god, that way the man can lead his family with confidence, and they have confidence that since he trusts god with his life, they can trust him with the direction he wants to take them.

Of course a man is not an island either. Women are pretty good at coming up with solutions to problems.

Ill get a dishwasher for example.

Heneni

angellous_evangellous · #17 05-20-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heneni

LOL

I dont consider submission to your husband as a bad thing. I consider it a form of trust. I believe that when a women submits to her husband, god blesses her for it.

That is why its important to marry a christian, who has a relationship with god, that way the man can lead his family with confidence, and they have confidence that since he trusts god with his life, they can trust him with the direction he wants to take them.

Of course a man is not an island either. Women are pretty good at coming up with solutions to problems.

Ill get a dishwasher for example.

Heneni

Well, I don't have a husband so its not my problem.

Scuba Pete · #18 05-20-2008, 03:49 PM

The New Testament church was a victim of man's traditions. Ergo, a lot of that tradition was recorded in the NT and is now used by literalists imbued with a chronic case of spiritual myopia.

SonOfNun · #19 08-15-2008, 06:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

The New Testament church was a victim of man's traditions. Ergo, a lot of that tradition was recorded in the NT and is now used by literalists imbued with a chronic case of spiritual myopia.

Who are you going to believe the Bible, or a human oppinion. Many people try to bash the Bible and say that it is filled with errors because it is a solid account of how God expects us to live our lives. If the NT is filled with errors than everything can be called into question and our religion falls apart. The basic and most fundamental purpose of the whole Bible is to call us back to that submissive state that Adam and Eve knew before they eat the fruit. God has layed down the best way to accomplish this task in the NT! Anyone who puts their beliefs ahead of it needs to think about what foundation their faith was built on.

Scuba Pete · #20 08-16-2008, 11:55 PM

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