Why is universalism heresy?

[RedOne77]

Why is universalism considered a heresy today? Supposedly for the first few centuries of Christianity universalism was the norm. When Bishop Irenaeus wrote "Against Heresies" in 180 AD, it didn't mention universalism as a heresy and many think his writings support universalism. What happened that made it a heresy?

Similarly, many Christians don't believe in a Hell. Is this also a heresy and why?

RedOne77

[Midnight Pete]

Similarly, many Christians don't believe in a Hell.

Oh? What gave you that idea?

[RedOne77]

Well, I grew up in a Christian culture, have many friends that are Christian, and I know several that don't believe in Hell. I know that anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much, so from Religious beliefs of Americans about ghosts, Satan, Heaven, Hell, etc., only 85% of born again Christians believe Hell is a real place with 15% that say Hell is figurative. Born again Christians tend to be more conservative in general, and the more conservative you are the more likely you are to believe in a literal Hell. So I think it is safe to infer that more than 15% of Christians don't view Hell as literal. Than you have people that are universalists that may believe in a corrective punishment period for the unrighteous, yet many don't like to say that it is "Hell" because it simply is a separate doctrine from what most people consider Hell.

I suppose I should have said "several Christians" and not "many".

I'd still like to know the answer to my question if you or anyone else knows, thanks.

[sandandfoam]

It's only considered a heresy by Christians I disagree with

Afraid I don't know why they consider it a heresy. As an aside I came to Christianity because of so-called heresy. All the 'heretics' I've stumbled across have very interesting stuff to say.

[lunamoth]

Originally Posted by RedOne77

Why is universalism considered a heresy today? Supposedly for the first few centuries of Christianity universalism was the norm. When Bishop Irenaeus wrote "Against Heresies" in 180 AD, it didn't mention universalism as a heresy and many think his writings support universalism. What happened that made it a heresy?

Similarly, many Christians don't believe in a Hell. Is this also a heresy and why?

RedOne77

I don't know the answer, but one modern explanation I have heard is that universalism implies that we can take away God's choice, and another person's choice, in the matter of whether someone is united with God.

I lean heavily towards universalism and the idea that God wants us all and so eventually God will have us all. However, it makes sense to me that both God and the other person should make this choice, not me.

I guess this makes more sense if you hold the view, as I do, that heaven is closeness to God and hell is separation from God.

BTW, one quote I like is this: As Christians we must believe in hell. But we don't have to believe that anyone ends up there.

[Midnight Pete]

Similarly, many Christians don't believe in a Hell. Is this also a heresy and why?

J. C. Ryle (1816-1900) the first Anglican bishop of Liverpool famously remarked, "Disbelieve hell, and you unscrew, unsettle, and unpin everything in Scripture."

Without hell, what is the meaning of the crucifixion? What significance could the death of Jesus possibly have had if there was no eternal hell as the result of sin? Jesus is called Saviour, but that word implies that there is salvation from something beyond earthly existence.

The whole of Christianity is destroyed if hell is deemed extra-biblical.

[RedOne77]

Originally Posted by lunamoth

I don't know the answer, but one modern explanation I have heard is that universalism implies that we can take away God's choice, and another person's choice, in the matter of whether someone is united with God.

I lean heavily towards universalism and the idea that God wants us all and so eventually God will have us all. However, it makes sense to me that both God and the other person should make this choice, not me.

I guess this makes more sense if you hold the view, as I do, that heaven is closeness to God and hell is separation from God.

BTW, one quote I like is this: As Christians we must believe in hell. But we don't have to believe that anyone ends up there.

I agree, it has to be a mutual choice by both God and the person. I myself am a universalist, but I do believe in a place where God will "punish" those not in Christ (although to label it "hell" is misleading). Although eventually all these people will learn about Christ and become part of Christ's family and enjoy all the benefits those in Christ do.

One idea I find very intriguing is a Hindu-like idea where because we all have free will, there is always a chance (giving the idea of a never ending cycle) that even when all are saved, eventually some or all will again reject God and fall from grace in need of salvation again.

[RedOne77]

Originally Posted by stephenw

It's only considered a heresy by Christians I disagree with

Afraid I don't know why they consider it a heresy. As an aside I came to Christianity because of so-called heresy. All the 'heretics' I've stumbled across have very interesting stuff to say.

I find it very interesting myself. As I said in the OP, the majority of early Christianity believed in universalism, and there is sort of a wave from conservative Christians (those of southern baptist and pentecostal backgrounds) that after looking into the original Greek become universalists. It seems that it became a heresy because of a Catholic doctrine, but I really don't know.

Originally Posted by Midnight Pete

J. C. Ryle (1816-1900) the first Anglican bishop of Liverpool famously remarked, "Disbelieve hell, and you unscrew, unsettle, and unpin everything in Scripture."

Without hell, what is the meaning of the crucifixion? What significance could the death of Jesus possibly have had if there was no eternal hell as the result of sin? Jesus is called Saviour, but that word implies that there is salvation from something beyond earthly existence.

The whole of Christianity is destroyed if hell is deemed extra-biblical.

Interesting viewpoint. I would like to ask what is Hell, and is such compatible with a loving and just God? For example, eternal torture hardly seems just for a finite time of committing crimes. And likewise God is considered our father and we His children, I myself don't see how a loving father would torture their own children for eternity.

[Neophyte]

Universalism is complete heresy if you follow the teachings of the Bible for several reasons.

First reason - Hell must exist that or there was no reason for Jesus to die.

Second reason - Universalism teaches there are several ways to reach Heaven. Again, why did Jesus die then.

Third reason - Univeralism teaches the "all is one" idea. Islam and Christianity are not the same as Christianity...they contradict each other to much. Especially when it comes to whether Jesus is God or just a prophet. I am not saying there is not truth in both religions, I am just saying that this is a reason Christianity considers Universalism heresy.

[Storm]

I've started a debate thread about this: Is Hell Necessary To Christianity?

Hope to see you guys there!