Do mainstream Christians, via use of jargon, avoid addmitting they practice magic?

[eccentricjdo]

Magic |maj-ic|
the practic of effecting a desired result via the use of ritual and/or incantation;
the practice of magic often invokes the name, favor and/or power of a
supernatural being

According to the definition above, do Christians practice magic? Yes, they do.

Please note that prayer is not to be confused with spellcasting, as prayer is, at the same time, supplication and submission. The boy who asks God to heal his dog is not casting a spell, provided that he leaves the result up the deity he prays to. That said, perhaps the majority of Christian prayers have little to no magical attributes.

However, when one compare Christian prayers to other Christian practices, and avoids the use of "Christianese" jargon, the practice of magic among Christians is easily apparent.

I can't think of any better example than the practices of consecration and exorcism. Such rites qualify as magic in that they invariably invoke the name of God, especially God incarnate, which is often used in a command given to the preternatural, and tend to involve the use of substances/objects that have previously been blessed in the name of Christ, and often follow prescribed ritual.

Even the phrase "God bless you is a spell", as the speaker believes that its use causes the receiver to be blessed.

[Jeremiah767]

I'm new to this site, but I think I can adequately answer this because I spent alot of my time in christianity as an apologetic-(christian term)someone who researches their religion and can put a damn good fight(debate) for it. First of all, I won't speak for exorcism or consecration because I wasn't catholic, although I would think from my own experience that they would be seeing themselves as the intermediaries while they holy spirit is the active ingredient in the equation. Thus they see themselves as channelling the holy spirit.

Now, back to the protestant side because that's where I know the most, if you say, God bless you, its more of a greeting then an incantation. You arn't trying to bless the person through your own power, but leaving it up to God. While I was a christian, one of my biggest problems with prayer as my eyes grew wider and wider to the truth was people imposing their will on God. "God, be with our troops, keep them safe," "what, maybe god doesn't want our troops to be safe, maybe us making assumptions about God's will is disasterous."

So in conclusion I would say that most Christians use magic, the more developed(ones that understand their religion through and through excluding pentacostal and other more liberal denominations) do not use it. And none of them, believe that they are using it.

Prayer works, whether we realize it or not. That's not why I stopped doing it though. I stopped doing it because I saw it as superceding the will of God.

[Curious_Kitty]

Originally Posted by Jeremiah767

Prayer works, whether we realize it or not. That's not why I stopped doing it though. I stopped doing it because I saw it as superceding the will of God.

Maybe the will of God is to do what we ask? Or his/her wil is that he shall do what we want as long as we are meek enough to ask for it? Not bashing ur thought, just asking

[Quaxotic]

I agree with you eccentric.

They are just trying to inflict their will upon the universe just like everyone else.

But let them believe they are doing something different.

-Q

[Jeremiah767]

Originally Posted by Curious_Kitty

Maybe the will of God is to do what we ask? Or his/her wil is that he shall do what we want as long as we are meek enough to ask for it? Not bashing ur thought, just asking

That seems an arrogant(or just paradoxy) thing to believe in my opinion. So the guy holding the ak47 praying to bring justice to a tyrant of a country and is meek enough to ask for it is just as effective as the guy praying for safety before we go out and conduct combat operations? If that happens, does God just stop caring who wins and who loses?

[Curious_Kitty]

Perhaps he will let the one win who will have the greastest benevolent force on the earth. Like myabe the murder sent to death row will find god, and end up converting several prisoners, thus it being for the greater good. or maybe the person he killed, if he had lived, would end up doing a lot of evil things. god works in mysterious ways sometimes.

[Kathryn]

I think some of the opinions on prayer here are pretty skewered. First of all, Christianity teaches that God commands us to pray - so NOT to pray would be disobeying God's will. Secondly, the Bible is full of examples of God listening and responding to the prayers of His people.

That being said, God is not a vending machine, and we shouldn't treat Him as such. Whenever we pray, we should remember to include both this phrase and intent: "Nevertheless, Lord, may your will, not mine, be done. Give me the strength and wisdom to accept your will."

1 Kings 8:28
Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day:

1 Kings 9:23
And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.

Psalm 6:9
The LORD hath heard my supplication; the LORD will receive my prayer.

Psalm 31:22
For I said in my haste, I am cut off from before thine eyes: nevertheless thou heardest the voice of my supplications when I cried unto thee.

Daniel 9:18
O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

Phillipians 4:6
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

1 Timothy 2:1-8
1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.


Prayer is not simply making demands on God's will. Prayer is communication, listening, opening a line of communication between our heart and God. God's command, "Be still and know that I am God" involves prayer that is silent - no demands, no supplications - simply listening and waiting for guidance and wisdom.

That's not to say that all Christians understand this. I believe that many people of various faiths misuse and misunderstand the purpose of prayer.

When I pray I say something to the effect of, "Lord, you know the desires of my heart - you know what I wish would happen. But I want to understand and accept your will in this situation - please give me an open mind and open heart, and most of all, wisdom."

God promises us that if we ask for wisdom from Him, He will give it to us. So I do ask for that quite a bit!

As for the "magic" when we say, "God bless you," that's a real stretch. That phrase is shortened from "May God bless you," which isn't a command or a demand, it's actually a request for God's blessing. In fact, it's a form of prayer, whether people who say it realize it or not.

[Jeremiah767]

You are one of the more developed christians out of the categories that I was describing. Though I have to admit seeing all those quotes from the bible back to back reminded me why I'm glad I left Christianity(no offence to you at all, I'm glad you know your stuff well), just realized how repetitive it is to look at the same verses over and over looking for hidden meaning when there's more out there that can be considered valid spiritual written material.

If you don't mind my asking, what is Liturgical?, if its a denomination, I have definitely never heard of it.

[Kathryn]

Liturgical simply means that I follow the liturgical calendar year, observing the holy days and holy seasons such as Lent, Advent, Ordinary Time, etc. Many denominations do so.

I also attend a church that has a liturgical service - the creed, the Amen, certain baptismal rites, confirmation, etc.

Keep in mind that those verses which seem repetitive to you seem consistent to me - those are simply verses pulled from 2000+ years of writings by many different authors spanning many different locales and audiences.

Peace!

[Scott C.]

Originally Posted by eccentricjdo

Magic |maj-ic|
the practic of effecting a desired result via the use of ritual and/or incantation;
the practice of magic often invokes the name, favor and/or power of a
supernatural being

According to the definition above, do Christians practice magic? Yes, they do.

Please note that prayer is not to be confused with spellcasting, as prayer is, at the same time, supplication and submission. The boy who asks God to heal his dog is not casting a spell, provided that he leaves the result up the deity he prays to. That said, perhaps the majority of Christian prayers have little to no magical attributes.

However, when one compare Christian prayers to other Christian practices, and avoids the use of "Christianese" jargon, the practice of magic among Christians is easily apparent.

I can't think of any better example than the practices of consecration and exorcism. Such rites qualify as magic in that they invariably invoke the name of God, especially God incarnate, which is often used in a command given to the preternatural, and tend to involve the use of substances/objects that have previously been blessed in the name of Christ, and often follow prescribed ritual.

Even the phrase "God bless you is a spell", as the speaker believes that its use causes the receiver to be blessed.

If you want to define miracles performed by God as magic, go ahead.