As a Christian : Do you consider yourself a Baptist? (gospel, salvation)

[Special Revelation]

That's an interesting question Beckysoup. Let me speak for 90% of those who answered. We are all Christians. A Christian is a disciple of Jesus Christ, enabled by the grace of God.

I'm not sure what your motive is in regards to your question. To me, this question is related to ones understanding of the ordinance or sacrament of baptism. By the grace of God, all Christians are enabled by God to obey the command to be baptized as an outward sign of the inward reality of being united to Christ by faith alone.

There are two basic views:

1. Believers Baptism - when someone professes Christ
2. Infant Baptism - when a Covenant Child is baptized as a sign of being in the covenant, household of faith, or visible church. This is not a conversion sacrament. It simply points to the promise of God to grant eternal life to the covenant child in the God's timing sometime in the future. It is similar to the practice of dedication of infants of baptist churches.

I hope this helps. I'm not sure where the LDS church falls into this discussion since you have proxy baptism (baptism for the dead), correct?

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by Special Revelation

1. Believers Baptism - when someone professes Christ

This is what we believe -- yet this discussion is not about us, it is about Baptists, please stick the format of the OP and keep on the subject. If you wish to discuss the LDS, create a thread. Thanks.

[Special Revelation]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

This is what we believe -- yet this discussion is not about us, it is about Baptists, please stick the format of the OP and keep on the subject. If you wish to discuss the LDS, create a thread. Thanks.

Baptist is a loose term in Christian circles. By your own statement, you are Baptist too!

[Bishka]

Originally Posted by Special Revelation

Baptist is a loose term in Christian circles. By your own statement, you are Baptist too!

By my own statement, I am a Christian.

[Scuba Pete]

For a good synopsis of "official" Baptist doctrine, you can go to http://www.baptiststart.com/doctrine.htm.

I was pretty intrigued by their thoughts on "regeneration". It is close to what I believe and really, very few who profess Christianity seem to understand the "New Heart". However, in practice, they still seem to treat the New Testament Scriptures as a book of laws rather than understanding the role of our heart, grace and the Holy Spirit.

Also, the Baptists that I have known, feel that you should "Pray Jesus into your heart", and often use that as a substitute for baptism. IOW, baptism is supplanted by this doctrine which has no actual basis in scripture. Like many, many protestants, they see no problems in adding their doctrine to scripture and then teaching that doctrine as if it were from God.

MOST Christians that I know do not see this a "loose term", but as a very specific reference to a denomination and it's doctrines. Those of us who believe that denominations are anathema, find being referred to as a Baptist to be particularly offensive.

[joeboonda]

Also, some denominations and non-denominations teach that salvation comes from both believing and being baptised, based on about 3 verses in the Bible that tie them together. In light of all the verses that simply say that He that believes has eternal life, and the fact that in Acts, people believed and were saved, then were baptised afterward, and other things, I do not add baptism to belief for salvation, but call it a symbol of our belief and a public profession of our faith in Christ. While it is the first step in obedience as a new-born Christian believer, it is just that, and does not save anybody, for our sins were washed away by the blood of Christ. All Baptist teachings I know of teach baptism as separate from having believed on Christ for salvation. I was saved at the age of 8 and baptised at the age of 14 when I joined a Baptist Church, they also made sure before I was baptised that I understood the plan of salvation; that all have sinned, the penalty of which is death, Jesus paid the penalty by dying in our place, and if we believe in, place our trust in that, in Jesus' death and resurrection, we are saved. Before I was baptised, they also had me to pray again to be sure, asking Jesus to forgive me of my sins believing He paid for them on the cross and rose again. Since then I have been "growing in grace", oft' times failing, at times having had doubts, which lead me to dig deeper, and to a stronger faith and assurance in Christ, and the molding and shaping process goes on to this day!
Peace and Love,
Mike

[Special Revelation]

Originally Posted by beckysoup61

By my own statement, I am a Christian.

Okay, you are a Mormon Christian. By your statement, someone might have mistaken you as an Evangelical Christian.

I am neither baptist, or padeo baptist (infant baptism). I'm simply a follower of Jesus Christ revealed in the Holy Bible alone. I was baptized as an infant in a protestant church. I was baptized as a believer in my late twenties. This is quite common for us Protestants and Roman Catholics converting to a Protestant Christianity. My three kids were baptized together, before their teens in a swimming pool by a Protestant Pastor.

The problem with believers baptism including decisional regeneration... is that baptist parents will always have their kids recite a sinners prayer at a very early age, then withhold their baptism a few years, until they see signs of fruit. This is very unbiblical because Scripture teaches that we believe and them be immediately baptized. There is no waiting period to see some fruit. Man judges the outward appearance, but God judges the heart. It's impossible for Mom and Dad to know true conversion fruit. In the book of Acts, you will see several household baptism. When the head of the house believes, everyone gets baptized (including toddlers and infants). Believers baptism is bad theology for children from Christian homes. Again, Baptist parents and Sunday School teachers make the children recite a sinners prayer and do an altar call (decisional regeneration) and tell them they accepted Jesus into their hearts. Thereafter, they hold back the ordinance of water baptism for several years until they are older. Why do we teach our baptist kids to be disobedient to believe and be baptize. To me..this is the tradition of man in a Baptist setting. BTW, I am currently attending a Baptist Church. I'm friends with the Pastor who is a Baptist in regards to Baptism. He married a wonderful Christian lady who believes in infant baptism. To keep peace, their children are baptized twice, once as an infant and again as a child who professes Christ. My Pastor friend and I just chuckle together. Baptist will dedicate their infants. He calls it a dry baptism. The infant baptism pastor also dedicates their infants and sprinkles a little bit of water (wet baptism). As long as someone does not believe in baptismal regeneration, it really doesn't matter...just chuckle.

[Special Revelation]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

Also, some denominations and non-denominations teach that salvation comes from both believing and being baptised, based on about 3 verses in the Bible that tie them together. In light of all the verses that simply say that He that believes has eternal life, and the fact that in Acts, people believed and were saved, then were baptised afterward, and other things, I do not add baptism to belief for salvation, but call it a symbol of our belief and a public profession of our faith in Christ. While it is the first step in obedience as a new-born Christian believer, it is just that, and does not save anybody, for our sins were washed away by the blood of Christ. All Baptist teachings I know of teach baptism as separate from having believed on Christ for salvation. I was saved at the age of 8 and baptised at the age of 14 when I joined a Baptist Church, they also made sure before I was baptised that I understood the plan of salvation; that all have sinned, the penalty of which is death, Jesus paid the penalty by dying in our place, and if we believe in, place our trust in that, in Jesus' death and resurrection, we are saved. Before I was baptised, they also had me to pray again to be sure, asking Jesus to forgive me of my sins believing He paid for them on the cross and rose again. Since then I have been "growing in grace", oft' times failing, at times having had doubts, which lead me to dig deeper, and to a stronger faith and assurance in Christ, and the molding and shaping process goes on to this day!
Peace and Love,
Mike

Okay dear brother in Christ... I am always blessed by your postings. Here is an illustration of what we do as baptist. You state the you were saved as an 8 year old. You were baptized at the age of 14. We have a 6 year period between professed faith and obedience to the command of baptism (outward sign of the inward reality at the age of 8). Do you see the problem with baptist children of households of faith. We are indirectly teaching them disobedience to the command of Jesus to be baptize. Within Christianity and the infant baptism position, children are called Covenant Children. They are baptized as infants as a sign of the covenant. It is similar to the outward sign of the inward reality. The inward reality is at God's timing and not by man's decision through a sinners prayer. The baptism points really to the future to your Christian children, the promise is to you and your household. God will grant the new birth to your children in the future.

The problem with this waiting period has to do with the Semi-Pelagius position of man's ability to convert themselves through a sinners prayer along with the altar call. Is this practice of decisional regeneration man made? I had a friend who was a follow-up counselor for the Billy Graham crusade. She would follow up with those who did an altar call at the Billy Graham crusade. After a year after the crusade, a extremely small percentage of those who did an altar call were in churches, or had any spiritual change in their lives. Were all of them who did an altar call converted and born again?

[joeboonda]

Originally Posted by Special Revelation

Okay dear brother in Christ... I am always blessed by your postings. Here is an illustration of what we do as baptist. You state the you were saved as an 8 year old. You were baptized at the age of 14. We have a 6 year period between professed faith and obedience to the command of baptism (outward sign or the inward reality at the age of 8). Do you see the problem with children of households of faith. Within Christianity and the infant baptism position, children are called Covenant Children. They are baptized as infants as a sign of the covenant. It is similar to the outward sign of the inward reality. The inward reality is at God's timing and not by man's decision through a sinners prayer. The baptism points really to the future to your Christian children, the promise is to you and your household. God will grant the new birth to your children in the future.

Thanks brother, I enjoy your posts as well! Are you saying you are Baptist? Because that does not sound at all like Baptist Doctrine. I was saved at age 8 but did not know about baptism and sporadically went to different churches for some time as my parents were coming out of catholicism. I accepted Christ in the summer at a youth ministry by a Baptist group that came to spread the Gospel, they were not from my town, so I was on my own in some ways. For several years we attended a wonderful country church with loving spirit-filled people, but the issue of baptism somehow never came up. When I finaly learned of the command to be Baptised to make a public profession of my faith as a believer, I obeyed. I have no problem with parents baptising their babies as a dedication that they will be raised to come to know the Lord, its more for the parents to me, I don't believe it saves anyone or takes away 'original sin'. I sometimes attend a laid-back contemporary service at the Methodist Church, and they like to sprinkle their infants, too, which is fine with me. But I also believe that once a person has trusted Christ as Saviour and is saved, they should get baptised, preferrably by immersion, as symbolic and as an outward profession of their faith. They won't not be saved if they don't but they will be walking in obedience and in God's blessings if they do. That's sorta my take without getting to much into what all baptism symbolizes and such.
Peace, Grace, and Love,
Mike

[Special Revelation]