Apostolic (Jesus, doctrine, preacher, church, Holy Ghost)

[*Paul*]

Originally Posted by ApostolicPreacher

A believer in ONE God & His name JESUS.
A believer in repentance.
A believer in water baptisim in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
A believer in the infilling of the Holy Ghost (God in you) with the evidenace of speaking in other tongues as the spirit of God gives the utterance.
A believer in living a holy life before the Lord without sinning.
A believer in being a doer of the word & not a hearer only.

Welcome by the way.

[Booko]

*** MOD POST ***

This is a DIR forum, and as such debate is not allowed. Please ratchet back the debate, friends!

Discuss Individual Religions Forums Rules and Usage:
8.) Each Individual Religion forum is for that religion's education and fellowship for people who abide by that religion and for discussion within that religion.


9.) We will not tolerate any debate about a religion in its Individual Religion forum, NO OUTSIDE DEBATE OR VIEW POINTS ARE ALLOWED. This rule is strictly enforced. If you wish to debate a certain religion the proper place for that is in the Debates sections.


10.) Asking respectful questions of other religions is acceptable in their Individual Religion forum.


11.) Attacking other religions in these forum is not tolerated. These forums are for education of the Religion or system in the title of the forum and fellowship only, not discounting other religions.

[*Paul*]

As post No 11 implies, i thought i was in the introductuons forum, i had no intention of debating anyone just had a question i wanted clearing up. Sorry.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by *Paul*

You believe in one God called Jesus? Are you absolutley sure about that Becky?

If so can someone please take the time to explain to me the mormon position on who is God and how many there are (well, in the bible and lds scriptures I mean) as i thought i understood.

I'm not being picky Becky but you have genuinly confused me here.

Hi, Paul. It's funny you picked up on that, and yet you did not question that we also agreed in "living a holy life before the Lord without sinning." Technically speaking, we don't believe in "one God whose name is Jesus," but technically speaking, we realize that there isn't a Christian alive who has "[lived] a holy life before the Lord without sinning, either." Both of these statements require some explanation, but since you had no problem overlooking the dilemma of how a sinner can live a life without sinning, I'll just address the other statement.

Here's what the Book of Mormon has to say on the subject: "And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end." (2 Nephi 31:21)

"And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one." (3 Nephi 11:27)

"And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end." (Mormon 7:7)

We believe that "Jesus" is the name of the Son, not the Father. We refer to the Father as "Elohim."

[*Paul*]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Hi, Paul. It's funny you picked up on that, and yet you did not question that we also agreed in "living a holy life before the Lord without sinning."

Thanks Katzpur, i was just blinded by the seeming agreement with the statement about God, as I figured you believe in Jesus (1 god) The Father (Another God) and the Spirit (yet another God) who are one in purpose. It just seemed to me that that does not tie at all with what he said. When I read his statement i read that here is one God and that God is Jesus. I hope you can understand my completely innocent and genuine confusion here Katzpur.

Here's what the Book of Mormon has to say on the subject: "And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end." (2 Nephi 31:21)

"And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one." (3 Nephi 11:27)

"And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end." (Mormon 7:7)

I know that Katzpur but that contrdicts what the apostolic man said surely, these definitions all include Father and Holy Spirit.

Anyway, I don't want to get into trouble, it is not meant as a debate simply an innocent confusion that I needed clearing up, no malice whatsoever on my part. Thanks for the response, see you around.

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by ApostolicPreacher

A believer in ONE God & His name JESUS.
A believer in repentance.
A believer in water baptisim in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
A believer in the infilling of the Holy Ghost (God in you) with the evidenace of speaking in other tongues as the spirit of God gives the utterance.
A believer in living a holy life before the Lord without sinning.
A believer in being a doer of the word & not a hearer only.

Hmmm. I beleive what the early christians historically claimed, namely:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.



In Mary's loving mantle,
Athanasius

[James the Persian]

Originally Posted by athanasius

Hmmm. I beleive what the early christians historically claimed, namely:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.



In Mary's loving mantle,
Athanasius

Sorry, but it's I who believe what the early Christians did. What you posted above is the later alteration of the Creed with the filioque. Please don't try to pass off that document from Toledo as the Nicene Creed.

James

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by JamesThePersian

Sorry, but it's I who believe what the early Christians did. What you posted above is the later alteration of the Creed with the filioque. Please don't try to pass off that document from Toledo as the Nicene Creed.

James

Now Now, Temper Temper. Ego Ego. Do not be alarmed James! Our Eastern Catholic churches in union with Rome do not us the fiilioque clause in their creed and Rome doesn't have a problem with it, as it was added in the 6th century in spain. But they do believe its true theology. And I as a Latin rite do also accept its theology as true. But I have no problem with its addition. It fits more perfectly and theologicaly. You and I pretty much go by Nicene-constantinople creed the onluy exception is this small one. The Original Nicene creed was a bit different.

No need to get offended.

Roma Locuta est Causa finita est
Athanasius

[Katzpur]

Thanks Katzpur, i was just blinded by the seeming agreement with the statement about God, as I figured you believe in Jesus (1 god) The Father (Another God) and the Spirit (yet another God) who are one in purpose. It just seemed to me that that does not tie at all with what he said. When I read his statement i read that here is one God and that God is Jesus. I hope you can understand my completely innocent and genuine confusion here Katzpur.

Do you believe that the Father is God? Do you believe that the Son is God? Do you believe that the Holy Ghost is God? I'm sure you'd answer "yes" to all of these questions, and yet you will probably insist that they are "one God." I have quoted LDS scripture in which they are all referred to as being "one God." I'm afraid I don't see the problem.

I know that Katzpur but that contrdicts what the apostolic man said surely, these definitions all include Father and Holy Spirit.

Doesn't the doctrine of the Trinty include the Father and the Holy Spirit as well? I think your only really arguable point concerns the name of God. If you believe that God the Father and the Holy Spirit are named "Jesus," then it would appear that we disagree, as I believe that the name "Jesus" refers only to the Son of God.

Anyway, I don't want to get into trouble, it is not meant as a debate simply an innocent confusion that I needed clearing up, no malice whatsoever on my part. Thanks for the response, see you around.

Don't worry, I think we're still close enough to the OP to continue our discussion, that is if you are still interested.

[*Paul*]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

Do you believe that the Father is God? Do you believe that the Son is God? Do you believe that the Holy Ghost is God? I'm sure you'd answer "yes" to all of these questions, and yet you will probably insist that they are "one God." I have quoted LDS scripture in which they are all referred to as being "one God." I'm afraid I don't see the problem.

I have never heard a mormon say there is one God and His name is Jesus. It was a simple query and I am still suprised that you can't see how I would be confused by it.

1 We abelieve in bGod, the Eternal Father, and in His cSon, Jesus Christ, and in the dHoly Ghost.

Doesn't the doctrine of the Trinty include the Father and the Holy Spirit as well? I think your only really arguable point concerns the name of God.

That is why I was / am confused, how can you agree with his statement that there is one God and His name is Jesus when you believe in 3 Gods each with different names who are only one in purpose? Can you seriously not see my confusion here? Am I missing something? I had no intention of starting a debate on the topic (I still don't) but I have made an effort to understand your doctrines by reading your documents and thought that I knew what you believed, that there are 3 Gods who are one in unity and pupose each distinct and called different things. I would have expected you to come back and say, oops I must have overlooked that (perhaps blinded by the sinless life statement), but instead you seem to insist you are in agreement.

If you believe that God the Father and the Holy Spirit are named "Jesus," then it would appear that we disagree, as I believe that the name "Jesus" refers only to the Son of God.

Thats what I believe to absolutley, but if thats what you believe then what you are saying is we believe in 3 Gods and one of them is called Jesus who is one in purpose and unity with the other two ( and are one in that sense). Not that there is one God and His name is Jesus. Wouldn't that be correct? I'm only trying to understand what you believe here not discredit it, as I said I have taken time to read quite a bit of your church documents so I could understand what you believe rather than have a Christian tell me what you believe and thought I had reached an understanding but clearly I haven't , it must be more complicated than what I previously thought which is why I asked for a someone to clear this up for me.

Don't worry, I think we're still close enough to the OP to continue our discussion, that is if you are still interested.

If Booko says so, she raised the earlier objection.