Guilt? (priest, salvation, followers, America, church)

[Master Vigil]

I was at a restaurant today, and the couple behind me were discussing (fairly loudly) about the catholic church. The one thing they agreed on was that it was a guilt ridden church. They hated how the priest, or other catholics, or even the faith in general makes them feel guilty about their life.

Is this a general idea of followers? Do people really feel that the Catholic church is a guilt-full church?

I dunno about you, but I am definitely not worthy of Christ's sacrifice. And I definitely believe that none of us are. And I definitely feel that since the sacrifice did take place, we should feel guilty for our sins.

[Alceste]

Yeah, I think Catholics are generally guilt-o-philes. Meaning, I've known more than a few who are actually turned on by guilt. I was engaged to one, he wouldn't stop cheating and lying to me even after I told him we could have an open relationship if he was unable to be monogamous. (He refused.) Granted, I can't judge all Catholics by one man's behavior, but the rest of his family was much the same. They all seemed to get excited by wrongdoing in a kind of melodramatic way - all cheating on each other, lying, divorcing, remarrying, giving up crippled kids for adoption then pretending they never existed...

I guessed that since they had all been raised from a very early age being told that things that were pleasurable (especially sexual things) were wrong / bad / sinful / displeasing to god, they learned to associate pleasure and shame, and subsequently can not feel one without the other. I can't speak for everyone, but this was certainly the case for my ex. Guilt gave him pleasure and pleasure gave him guilt, and this (IMO) was due to his Catholic upbringing.

[Sunstone]

Well, based on no more than the folks I've known, I suspect Roman Catholics, a bit more than most other denominations, make a fetish of guilt.

In general, I believe they tend to see guilt as an important, useful, and even necessary, emotion -- which is baffling to me, but not really any of my business. And like Alceste, I believe I've noticed a distinctive tendency among Catholics -- even those who left the Church and are merely former Catholics now -- to associate guilt and pleasure in the peculiar way she has described so well.

In my limited experience of these things, the people who have come closest to the Catholics in how they handle guilt have been non-denominational fundamentalists.

But I'm not trying to imply here I understand why any of those folks have such an interesting attitude towards guilt. Whenever a Catholic -- or former Catholic -- friend has discussed their feelings about guilt with me, I haven't been able to understand why it seems so difficult for them to just get over it. My best guess is that if someone has spent a good chunk of their life cultivating and nurturing feelings of guilt, then it's most likely pretty hard for them to entirely grasp that it was a pointless exercise. But that's just a guess and I don't really think I know why so many of the Catholics I've known have such an interesting attitude towards guilt, and such a difficult time getting beyond it when they want to get beyond it.

[Victor]

Guilt is supposed to serve as a useful means to get us to repent and ponder over our actions. Too much guilt and no guilt can have dire consequences. It’s got its place, but like other feelings, it can also lead you down a slippery path.

To give you a classic example of a man, who took guilt too far, read up on Martin Luther’s life. He couldn’t tolerate the uncertainty of hard work and the sacraments could do anything. The man just didn’t believe anything man could possibly devise was ever enough to satisfy God (hence, his modified view of salvation). He was right about man not every doing enough, but wrong about the sacraments.

Only a supernatural act (sacrifice) can heal a supernatural wound (the fall of man). And it’s more then just something you do, but you have to believe it. Otherwise, you can literally drive yourself nuts.

I happen to have experienced both. Not feeling any guilt and then feeling it to the point of not even believing the power of forgiveness. In both situations, it affected me negatively.

[UltraViolet]

Master Vigil,

Are non catholics allowed/invited to comment in this post?
(as it is in the Catholic directory.)

Thank you in advance for your clarification.
~Violet~

[Master Vigil]

Originally Posted by UltraViolet

Master Vigil,

Are non catholics allowed/invited to comment in this post?
(as it is in the Catholic directory.)

Thank you in advance for your clarification.
~Violet~

I care more about what Catholics think, I know what the majority of non-catholics think. I would like to know how Catholics deal with this concept.

[Victor]

Here is a good resource I found:
Guilt by Kathiann M. Kowalski - Youth Update ©2000

[Master Vigil]

Thanks Victor! That helped alot!