What do you do with a heathen in Mass? (Jesus Christ, beliefs)

[9-10ths_Penguin]

While reading the thread Processional/Recessional at Mass- Why?, I got to wondering about the finer points of what's done in the church and during Mass and the reasoning behind them.

Some of you probably know that my wife's Catholic and that I am not (unbaptized as well, in case it matters). I was married in a Catholic church and went through the normal wedding preparation course that included a sort of "crash course" in Catholicism for non-Catholics, plus some basic tips from the church's volunteer wedding co-ordinator (e.g. "bow when you pass the altar" and that sort of thing). I've read some, but not all, of the Catechism.

Most of the time when my wife goes to Mass, I go with her. When I do go, I don't genuflect before entering the pew (I don't feel it's appropriate for me to do so), and I no longer kneel during the points in the Mass where one normally does (long story there, but probably best saved for another thread). Generally, I keep to myself and don't participate other than standing when everyone stands, sitting when everyone sits, sitting a bit forward (so the people behind me can rest their hands on the back of the pew) when everyone kneels, and shaking hands and saying "peace be with you". I don't ever make the sign of the cross, and I don't bow my head when the congregation prays.

Every now and then, I get odd looks from people. It's hard for me to tell how much of it is puzzlement at why a non-Catholic would come to a Catholic Mass, and how much of it is offense at some violation of the rules that I've committed.

Am I doing anything that could be considered improper or offensive? Is it considered mandatory for even non-believers to genuflect and kneel? Is there anything wrong with a non-Catholic participating in the hand-shaking part of the Mass?

Basically, as a Catholic, what do you expect from a heathen in Mass?

[Victor]

They won't burn you at the stake...I promise.

I've taken my agnostic friend to Mass before and he participated as much as you did. I made it clear outside of receiving the Eucharist he can be nonformal about it. Just do what he feels comfortable with. I'd be surprise if anyone even noticed that you weren't doing the things you noted. Unless it's something really obvious, I can't remember a time I heard other catholics talking about it.

Just relax and get whatever good out of it that you can.

[Te Deum]

Since the Eucharist IS Jesus Christ, I think that all peoples present should kneel, genuflect, etc. at the proper times. However, non-Catholics should not present themselves for Holy Communion.

What is stopping you from joining the Church and receiving the Holy Sacrament of Baptism?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Te Deum

Since the Eucharist IS Jesus Christ, I think that all peoples present should kneel, genuflect, etc. at the proper times.

Even if the person doesn't believe that to be the case? You don't think it becomes a bit of an empty gesture?

And when you say genuflect, do you just mean touching a knee to the floor, or would you expect a non-Catholic to cross himself?

Originally Posted by Te Deum

However, non-Catholics should not present themselves for Holy Communion.

No... and I don't.

Originally Posted by Te Deum

What is stopping you from joining the Church and receiving the Holy Sacrament of Baptism?

Heh... I think it would be hard to fit in my objections to joining the Church into the character limit for a post. When my wife asked me a similar question, I ended up with six handwritten pages of issues I had (not all specific to Catholicism, though - most dealt with Christianity generally and theism as a whole).

It's enough of a struggle for me to decide whether it's right for me to even attend the baptisms of any children my wife and I may have, to say nothing of me joining the Church myself.

[rheff78]

I don't think you need to cross yourself, maybe not even genuflect. But simple things, like kneeling and bowing your head I think you can do. You're not giving in to the religion, you're just respecting the fact that everyone else is doing it. I have gone to some churches before where I didn't what was going on, but I did the things they did, just as a show of respect.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Te Deum

Since the Eucharist IS Jesus Christ, I think that all peoples present should kneel, genuflect, etc. at the proper times.

I think everybody should be catholic and be in good standing, but since the Mass is open to even those who are not, she should not be surprised by people either finding things empty and not necessarily following along.

As long as they aren't doing something overly disrespectful and disrupting Mass for others, I don't see what we can do. Besides, people should be focusing on the Mass, not on whether Joe Schmo is crossing himself properly.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by rheff78

I don't think you need to cross yourself, maybe not even genuflect. But simple things, like kneeling and bowing your head I think you can do.

I don't think I can, but DIR isn't the place to discuss it. Hang on while I start a new thread in the debates section.

Originally Posted by rheff78

You're not giving in to the religion, you're just respecting the fact that everyone else is doing it. I have gone to some churches before where I didn't what was going on, but I did the things they did, just as a show of respect.

Hmm. I usually approach things from a different way: I think the important thing is to show respect to the beliefs behind the actions, and that doing them without understanding the reasons for them doesn't really do that.

Also, it can sometimes lead a person to do the wrong thing. Would you want a non-Catholic lining up for the Eucharist just because everyone else was doing it?

[Victor]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

I don't think I can, but DIR isn't the place to discuss it. Hang on while I start a new thread in the debates section.


Hmm. I usually approach things from a different way: I think the important thing is to show respect to the beliefs behind the actions, and that doing them without understanding the reasons for them doesn't really do that.

Also, it can sometimes lead a person to do the wrong thing. Would you want a non-Catholic lining up for the Eucharist just because everyone else was doing it?

Nope...which is why (if you notice) is the one thing we were all pretty clear you couldn't do. One thing, doesn't have to lead to another.

Most catholics are pretty good at letting others know about this.