A few questions for Catholics? (Jesus Christ, Earth, salvation, hell)

[Anti-World]

Ooo ooo!!! I got more!

1.) Why do Catholics pray to saints.
2.) How is bread turned into Jesus' flesh LITERALLY?
3.) Why do catholics ignore matthew chapter 5 and continue to use repetitive prayer and pray in public when it is denounced by Jesus himself?
5.) Why can't God forgive my sins? A priest has to do it?
6.) Why do catholics call their church the only true church?

[athanasius]

Originally Posted by Anti-World

Ooo ooo!!! I got more!

1.) Why do Catholics pray to saints.

Lets start with your first question:

I would be happy to now shed some light about the Catholic devotion
to Mary our blessed Mother and the saints. I know you may not agree
with my conclusions and thats fine(Although I never put it past the
work of the Holy Spirit to open someone's heart up to his Catholic
Church). *what I was trying to say last night before I got interrupted
was this: *

When a protestant hears the word "Pray" they automatically
think of worship. *This *is not unusual at all becuase the term pray
can mean worship as we see Jesus telling his followers to Pray to God
and say "Our father who art in heaven".

*So prayer can definatley be a form of worship. *Catholics agree with
protestants on this issue. *However, when talking about christian
prayer, protestants tend to only focus the meaning of the word pray to
mean "worship only".

*This is where many good hearted protestants
misunderstand the Catholic understanding of the meaning to Pray. *Its
a mere misunderstanding of what we mean when we phrase things. *So
when a Catholic say's he's praying to Mary or a saint the protestant
thinks he is worshipping Mary. *But, actually the Catholic is not.

Catholics use the term "Pray" in a fuller sense of the word. *When we
Pray to God(Jesus), we worship him. *But the term pray also has a
another meaning. *It doesn't just mean to worship. *It can mean to
simply "ask or petition another human being or person".

*This is
simply one of the definitions of the word "Pray" most dictionaries
will show that. *for example you could reference "Websters new
universal unabridged dictionary" to show this is validly a definition
for the word pray, catholics do not just make these things up. *So
Catholics when we pray to Mary we do NOT worship mary at all.

In fact when we pray to Mary or a saint we *are simply "asking" them
to pray to God for for us. *We are asking for their intercession. * To
us asking a departed brother and sister to pray for us is no different
than asking a living brother and sister to pray for us here on earth.
Some people say "Why go to Mary or a saint when you could just go
directly to Jesus"?

*The Catholic does go to Jesus directly but we
Catholics also ask for Mary to pray for us too. *It would be no
different than me asking you to pray for me. *Would you say to me "Why
ask me to pray for you when you could go directly to Jesus himself"?
Of coarse not, because you recognize as St Paul teaches that we are in
the Body of Christ and it is a good and holy thing to make prayers and
intercessions for one another(1 tim 2:1, Rom 15:30-32).

* Catholics do not believe that *death can separate us from the Body
of Christ. *We believe that Christ Sacrifice on the Cross was so
powerful it surpasses physical boundaries.

*St Paul alludes to this in
a very general way when he shows us that nothing can separate us
christians from the love of Christ not even death(Rom 8:35-39). *We
know as Christians that St James tells us that the prayers of the
righteous are powerful(James 5:16). Well who are more righteous than
those already in heaven with Christ?

This is why we pray to(Or simply ask) departed christians to intercede
and pray for us to God. *The more prayer the better. *They(the
departed in Glory) are part of the Body of Christ too and the body of
Christ lives to intercede for one another(1 tim 2:1). *We believe that
the Body of Christ in heaven really does intercede for us and pray
for for us.

*They really care for us. They are like our older brothers
and sisters in heaven cheering us on and praying for our needs. *The
writer to the book of Hebrews uses a appropriate phrase in reguards to
the old testament saints in heaven in relationship to us on earth. *He
says of the old testement saints "since we are surrounded by such a
cloud of witnessess"(Heb 12:1) .

Indeed *the faithful departed do care
about us and surround us in prayer. Another passage which we see this
is in is the book of Revelation. * In (Rev 5:8) we see the heavenly
saints(elders) around the throne of God offering him incense which are
the prayers of the living saints on earth. *

Logically, if the saints
in heaven are presenting God with our needs and prayers then someone
must be asking them to pray for us. *Saints in order to take our needs
to God must know them and they can't know them unless we tell them. We
see angels do the same thing in(Rev 8:3-4). *that is also why
catholics pray to or ask angles to pray for them to God.

* * This is something that has always been believed and naturally
assumed and lived out in the early Church. *None really questioned
this teaching of asking a departed borther to pray for us until 1500
years later when Luther came around. *

Remember this was the same early
church that gave us the Canon of scripture and this was the same early
church that stamped out all the early heresies, yet they never
considered this to be heresy but rather to be true teaching. *If you
look and read the wriitngs of the early fathers, the same early
Christians who gave us the bible as we know it today, they were
praying to saints.

There were many of the finest bible scholars like
St Jerome who lived in the 300'-400s who was the early churches best
scripture scholar(He knew Greek and Hebrew well) *and yet none of them
ever had a problem with praying to saints. this unfortunatly is a big
black hole for the non-Catholic churches.

Could all the early
christians have been wrong for 1500 years till luther came along? *How
could a person trust those early Christian Fathers and Popes *on what
the Bible was but not trust them on this issue? *It was those early
Fathers and Popes who gave us the Canon of the bible(In 382 ad at the
council of Rome under POPe Damasus I).

* *if you look at the early religious artwork you will see depicted
the saints in heaven praying for us(a refernece to revelation 5:8) and
clouds of saints surrounding us(a reference to Hebrews 12:1) *This
practice permeated the early church and her worship which predated the
bible. That fact alone is a eye opener.

*YOu had funeral inscriptions
which read " Victor rest in peace and pray for us" Ad 300. *just to
give you a few examples. * So when a Catholic historically and
Biblically looks at this doctirne it becomes clear that this is how it
has always been believed and who is teaching the doctirne of the
Christ and the apostles from day one. Some of my good baptist minister
friends actually understand this once it was explained to them.

* * *I hope this helps. Now to answer a few more questions you may
have had. *Some people may object to asking a saint to pray for you
and they usually quote(1 Tim 2:5) which says that "there is one
mediatior between God and man the man Jesus Christ." *I used to quote
this one too until I looked a little deeper into scripture.
Protestants are usally worried that Catholics try to ursurp the unique
role of Christ as one mediator and transfer that role to Mary and the
saints.

*Catholics do not do that though. We acknoweldge that Christ
Jesus our Saviour is the one who bridges that gap between us and the
Father. *Only Christ is fully God and Fully Man so only Christ can
brigdge that Gap. *However, this passages does not exclude the concept
of mediation in the Body of Christ(those who are in Christ the one
mediator). *The context of this passage will reveal that.

*If we look just a few verses earlier we see Paul calling us to make intercessionfor the church(1 tim 2:1-4). *In other words we who are in the body of Christ are to pray for one another. The word Intercessor is actually a synonym for mediator most dictionaries will reveal that. *Think about
it? *If you make intercession or pray for someone your basically being
a mediator. *

You mediate a message of prayer to Christ on someone
elses behalf. *Thats what intercession in the body of Christ is all
about. You wouldn't tell someone you can't pray for them becuase
Christ is the only mediator would you? *You become a mediatior in
Christ but that doesn't take away from the fact that Jesus is the one
mediator between God and us does it? *No it doesn't.

* * Why doesn't it? It doesn't becuase you are in the Body of Christ.
You can make intercession becuase you share in Christ Body, and Christ
is the one mediator. *You cannot separate the Body(Church) from the
head(Christ). *Jesus is very clear that in scripture that you cannot
separate him from his body. *

This comes out in (acts 9 :4-5) when Saul
is persecuting the church and gets nocked off his horse and jesus says
"Saul Saul why do you persecute me?" *notice Jesus doesn't say" Saul
why do you persecute the church" Yet Paul would admit himself that is
what he did. *Jesus also said to his church "He who hears you hears me
but he who rejects you rejects me"(Luke 10:16) These passages among
many others show the closeness and connection of Christ with his
Body(the church). *So the reason why we can pray for or make
intercession for one another in the body of Christ is becuase we are
in his Body. *This in no way takes away from him being the one
mediator. *after all if we were not in him we couldn't pray for or
mediate for one another.

* Remember that Angels too are mediators. *In fact in sacred
scripture Mediator is one of thier names. *In scripture the Hebrew
word "Melis" is used as the title of angels in(Job 33:23) this word
means "Mediator". *How can this be? *It can be because Angels are also
in the Body of Christ so they share, like us in his mediation or
intercessioin ministry. I hope that helps
___________________________
Begone Satan! Never tempt me with your vanities! What you offer me is evil. Drink the poison yourself!
St Benedict pray for us

[Anti-World]

Ok... So why do people ask saints to protect us? They can't do anything. Isn't it god whose protecting us?

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Anti-World

Ok... So why do people ask saints to protect us? They can't do anything. Isn't it god whose protecting us?

Thanks for asking AW....

The original meaning of the word pray is simply to ask. God alone can grant this of His own power. No Saint has such power. Usually when we pray to God we simply ask for mercy, forgiveness and that His will be done, though we may pray for things like healing of a family member, for a broken relationship and things of that sort.

In the case of asking [praying] the Saints, we are asking that they might pray to God for us. Not that we are incapacitated to do so on our own accord, but more to do because we believe prayers of a righteous man is efficacious. Who can be closer to God, then Saints in heaven? By close, I don't merely speak of distance, but in mind, soul, and body. They are in full communion with God, so their pleas have more weight then ours do. Does it not warm the heart of a father when he see's his other sons and daughters (saints) asking for their brothers on earth? I know from experience that it warms my heart when I see my son doing it for his own brother. A good father doesn't puff up and say "why didn't he come to me". Most assuredly my son would answer "because he is embarrased and afraid father".

Hope that helps.

~Victor

[James the Persian]

Can I ask all of you people to note that this is a common forum for Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics, not the Roman Catholic subforum? Catholic, certainly here, is not synonymous with Roman Catholic, OK?

Anti-world, those of your questions which aren't based on complete misconceptions on your part (and that's probably most of them) are all specific to Roman Catholicism only. If you want to ask such things, and I would suggest that you do so with a little more respect, could you please do so in the Roman Catholic subforum? Thanks.

James

[Halcyon]

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