Wisdom Commentary (ritual, mission, spiritual, God, divine)

[Natural Submission]

Excellent wisdom. One should try to practise meditation and "mind clearing/emptying" as often as possible. One's meditation shouldn't necessarily be directed to one's God (or whatever one believes in), rather one should focus on nothing, attempting to merge with the Divine Mind in which we are all thoughts...

[Master Vigil]

Originally Posted by Natural Submission

rather one should focus on nothing, attempting to merge with the Divine Mind in which we are all thoughts...

That is a true misunderstanding of meditation. There is no possible way to focus on nothing. We have no idea what Nothingness is. Instead of supressing everything to "focus on nothing," one should allow thoughts to arise. Recognize them, let them come, and then drop them. Focus is the key, but not focusing on nothing. Suppressing thoughts is like hitting a cork in water. The harder you hit it, the stronger it recoils back.

[Natural Submission]

What i mean by this is for us NOT to focus on the thoughts that come up, rather let them go as you said. If we focus on the thought we cannot let it go and are thus in a paradox, being pulled elsewhere. When the thoughts come up, DON'T focus on them, instead focus on nothing, thus letting these thougts drift away. To abstain from such focus would hold us back from Spiritual Enlightenment, so we must not think about the thoughts, rather, focus on nothing. i hope this clears up any confusion.

[Master Vigil]

You are right we can't focus on the thoughts. However, we still need to focus on something or else our mind will go a wry. Again, nothingness is unknown to humans. So there are different exercises for focus, breathing, drumming, chi gong, etc... The point is, the better you can focus on "one" thing, the easier it is to focus with "many" things. Thats the point of meditation. Enlightenment is when the "many" things become "one" thing and all is understood. But it is never "nothing."

[Natural Submission]

i agree. But as you said there are several ways to meditate. It reminds me of an old saying "Although the paths are many, the Way is One. Ultimately to "find" nothingness, is to find the doorway to the Tao.

[Master Vigil]

Indeed. But that nothingness (For taoists) doesn't happen until death. As a human is alive. Nothingness cannot be known. Yes, there are several ways to meditate. But no way to know "nothingness."

[Natural Submission]

Don't we "die" every night as we sleep? During this time our spirit drifts into other worlds beyond our awakened grasp. What are you seeking (besides the basics) when you meditate? What was the Buddha seeking when he started meditating? To be enlightened is to know nothing. To find nothing we meditate. To see nothing, we must focus on it.

[Master Vigil]

Originally Posted by Natural Submission

Don't we "die" every night as we sleep?

No

Originally Posted by Natural Submission

During this time our spirit drifts into other worlds beyond our awakened grasp.

Not that I know of, nor any of the spirits I deal with.

Originally Posted by Natural Submission

What are you seeking (besides the basics) when you meditate?

Peace, and oneness with tao.

Originally Posted by Natural Submission

What was the Buddha seeking when he started meditating? To be enlightened is to know nothing. To find nothing we meditate. To see nothing, we must focus on it.

He was seeking answers to why there was suffering. And he didn't find nothing, he found the 8 fold path, and the 4 noble truths. Nirvana isn't a state of nothingness, it is a state of oneness. To meditate is to let yourself be one with the universe. To let go of the self so to understand the oneness. It is like the zen koan...

The student asked the master "Why do we meditate.?"
The master showed the student a bucket of water. Took a stick and stirred the water. He then asked the student, "What do you see in the water?"
The student answered "ripples of light."
Then the master said "Wait...."
And when the water calmed he then asked "Now what do you see?"
And the student answered "The moon."
The master said... "That is why we meditate."

There is no "nothingness" but an understanding of what is.

[Natural Submission]

Beautiful. This is truly enlightenment. i think we are speaking on different levels. i am saying FIRST we have to find "nothingness" e.g. let go of our-"self". As i said to find nothing is to know we know nothing. Upon this realization we can empty our-selves and fully merge with the Tao and find pure enlightenment. But until we "empty" our minds of "our" thoughts, we cannot find enlightenment. So in this manner we have to "return" our minds to nothingness IN ORDER to merge with the Tao and allow it to take over. THEN we will find such things as the 8-fold path etc.

[Master Vigil]

I feel we are just talking with different terms. I feel when you say nothingness, you are indeed talking about the taoist idea of oneness. So we really don't disagree, we are just using different terms.