Enlightenment, is a Catalyst needed? (mystic, evolve, experience, Zen)

[vandervalley]

Originally Posted by Seyorni

No. I am not talking about drunkards and reprobates. I'm referring to serious individuals using hallucinogens as religious sacrements, in solemn, reverent and controlled settings.

ok but I'd like to point out that the Enlightenment in Buddhist sense is eternal and does not rely on any materialistic means such as antidepressants or drugs of any kind.

[Seyorni]

Point taken, my friend. I haven't heard of anyone achieving permanent enlightenment through pharmaceuticals either. But I do see potential value in even a brief awakening. For many even a single glimpse of Objective Reality through expanded consciousness is life-transforming; forever transforming their view of themselves and the Universe.

[zenzero]

Friend Koan,

How does one expand consciousness? Consciousness is Consciousness.

Conciousness is beyond time since here time is always in the PRESENT.
The halo that we see around the faces of enlightened people is the same EXPANDED CONCIOUSNESS.
Conciousness is the point where one loses track of the past / future only the Present remains. But one can hold that poistion to the extent he can be concious and the level of his energy he posses. The unconcious part in us always drags us back and even today the unconcious part drags me back to sleep. But those who have had a satori or that point where the conciousness loses sense of time and only remin PRESENT as mentioned by others here; will always come back for that glimpse. So by practise one slowly expands this point where the present remains on and on. Nirvana is the point where the unconcious no more remains in the person or he too dissolves and only the WITNESS / CONCIOUSNESS remains.
love & rgds

[koan]

Zenzero, are you sure your not confusing consciouness with prajna? Wisdom may expand in a consciousness that is already present. Consciouness after all is just the funtioning of the Brain/mind.

[zenzero]

Friend Koan,
conciousness /witness happens when the mind STOPS its functioning.
Mind is always thinking and when this stops only then does that mind enters that zone of nothingness when the Ego / I disappears and one becomes a Presence.
meditations are all about watching this very mind's functions and like the lake with ripples where no effort can get the ripples to cease so is the mind's functioning; only watchfullness and slowly the point comes when the mind is free of thoughts and the distance between the self and existence disappears only the Present reamins.
love & rgds