Is Buddhism a process theology? (contradiction, choices, choice, creation)

[Random]

Originally Posted by Engyo

True - and I suppose all of us practicing Buddhists first consider how things are done in our own practice, only distantly remembering that there are other Buddhists who do things very differently.

Of course all methods of observance in Buddhism are not the same for all practitioners, I understand that. But I think it's great that Buddha's are revered in this way!

[Ozzie]

[quote]

Originally Posted by lilithu

It does? If all of existence is interdependent, then it is interdependent throughout space and time. This has certainly been my experience during those brief moments of awakening.

Sure there is interdependence through chains of causation etc. But why should the present moment last forever, as it does in a memory. I'm not sure how Buddhism deals with memory if all phenomena arise and pass away. The rest of human mental life is fleeting and seems to fit with Buddhism.

The term "process theology" usually means something rather specific - the view of reality as put forth by philosophers and theologians such as Alfred Whitehead and Charles Hartshorne. That doesn't seem to be what you're referring to?

I wasn't sure what you were referring to either so I looked it up.

These bit from the Wiki site are interesting.:

Charles Hartshorne believes that people do not experience subjective (or personal) immortality, but they do have objectiveimmortality because their experiences live on forever in God, who contains all that was. Others believe that people do have subjective experience after bodily death.

I think Hartshorne's belief is Buddhist if God is identical with the universe (and your comments about interrelatedness are contained by this belief).

Buddhism is empirical. There is a "theory" behind it, but it is based on one's own direct experience having put its theories into practice. Theory is secondary to practice. The Buddha said so himself in the Kalama sutta.

You cannot experience a theory. You can only experience a practice/method. Buddhist is actually a perfect opportunity to test and potentially falsify theories through observation, which is why I think it is scientific.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Ozzie

Sure there is interdependence through chains of causation etc. But why should the present moment last forever, as it does in a memory. I'm not sure how Buddhism deals with memory if all phenomena arise and pass away. The rest of human mental life is fleeting and seems to fit with Buddhism.

I wasn't sure what you were referring to either so I looked it up.

These bit from the Wiki site are interesting.:
Charles Hartshorne believes that people do not experience subjective (or personal) immortality, but they do have objective immortality because their experiences live on forever in God, who contains all that was.

I think Hartshorne's belief is Buddhist if God is identical with the universe (and your comments about interrelatedness are contained by this belief).

Which brings us back to "time," and what we perceive as the present being linked to what we perceive as the past and future. In the suttas there is reference to the Buddha being able to see into the past and future. Initially I had trouble with such references as I took them to be "supernatural" but having had a tiny glimpse of "temporal interdependency," I now think that there is nothing "supernatural" about it. The Buddha, because he was fully awakened and could see all conditions as they arise and pass away, could indeed see that so-and-so had done something in a previous life that would affect him now as karma came to fruition, or that such-and-such was a "stream-enterer" and would attain enlightenment within a couple of lifetimes.

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Which brings us back to "time," and what we perceive as the present being linked to what we perceive as the past and future. In the suttas there is reference to the Buddha being able to see into the past and future. Initially I had trouble with such references as I took them to be "supernatural" but having had a tiny glimpse of "temporal interdependency," I now think that there is nothing "supernatural" about it. The Buddha, because he was fully awakened and could see all conditions as they arise and pass away, could indeed see that so-and-so had done something in a previous life that would affect him now as karma came to fruition, or that such-and-such was a "stream-enterer" and would attain enlightenment within a couple of lifetimes.

I don't think it detracts from the Buddha as an "all-knowing" individual one iota whether or not he had the ability to see into the past or future so long as he could perceive the present as it is. If he could do that, then he could indeed see the future and the past as a process.

Time held no relevance for the Buddha. Or did it?

What do the teachings say about that?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Ozzie

I don't think it detracts from the Buddha as an "all-knowing" individual one iota whether or not he had the ability to see into the past or future so long as he could perceive the present as it is. If he could do that, then he could indeed see the future and the past as a process.

Time held no relevance for the Buddha. Or did it?

What do the teachings say about that?

Whether or not it detracts, what I'm saying is that I can see how he could do it.

Why should time hold relevance for someone who is Unconditioned? But for the rest of us who are conditioned beings, time is of the essence, as we only have a limited amount in order to achieve Enlightenment. I don't quite understand why, but Buddhism has a stronger sense of urgency than Hinduism, where, if you don't make it in this life, eh, there's always the next.

[vandervalley]

Time held no relevance for the Buddha. Or did it?

What do the teachings say about that?

well in Buddhism time is important; Buddha said a person's life is between breaths. One may be breathing right at this moment but there is no guarantee that he/she will be breathing in the next millisecond. So in Buddhism it is important to know that life is short and there isn't much time to attain elightenment and break this suffering of death and rebirth.

[zenzero]

Engyo,
Your understanding of Buddhism is perfect but note that the basis of any discussion comes from the very MIND itself which is opposed to the state of no-mind of buddhism. The mind is the very trap and all answeres to questions coming and going are all from the same root.
The circle will continue.
Is it correct? is it wrong?
Again the two sides taken by the mind.
either are not real.
All essential questions are also answered by existence itself and that itself is MEDITATION the very practice that leads each individual towards the universal.
Love & rgds

[Engyo]

Zenzero -

Please continue practicing your Path towards enlightenment, and I will continue to practice mine. We will both be successful eventually.

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by Engyo

Zenzero -

Please continue practicing your Path towards enlightenment, and I will continue to practice mine. We will both be successful eventually.

Jeez that was diplomatic. frubals.