Desire (virtual, Buddhism, translation, America, service)

[MaddLlama]

Forgive me if this question seems a little dim. =)

What exactly is desire in Buddhism? Is there a differentiation between good and bad desire? If one of the ideas is to eliminate desire, does that mean certain things, or does it mean to live only within necessity? Or, does it just mean not letting desire for "things" control you?

Thank you for listening to my confused ramblings =)

[koan]

Desire covers a wide spectrum in Buddhism. It basically comes down to what ever ones real needs to survives Versus, wants. Needs to survive are food, clothing and shelter, what ever else one wants is desire e.g. I want a nice house and a lovely Wife / husband. Althouth many people see this as just being reasonable, they are actually still wants / desire. I desire a nice house and a wife / husband. Why does one need a nice house? Why does one need a wife / husband. Can one survive without these? Wants / desire creep into every facet of our being and mostly without us even realising that it is desire. Desire can be that subtle, that even not wanting to desire is still desire.
Now as regards to good and bad desire, good desire is basicaly any desire with an altruistic approach, e.g. pracicing Buddhism, teaching , medical and generally being compassionate. The Bodhisattva vow of not attaing Buddhahood, till all sentient beings have been liberated, falls into this catergory. Basicaly bad desire falls into, I want more money, I want the best car, I want nice clothes, etc. However, we live in a society where the desire are classed as the norm. Probably whats worse than these desires is grasping. I have to have more money, I have to have the best car, I have to have nice clothest etc. Or things like I couldn't live without my husband or wife, I couldn't live without my favourite possessions etc.
So, as these small examples show, desire is virtualy ingrained into our being. This said, the ability to recognise what desire is and being able to let things go, will help relieve one from Dukkha.

[Ozzie]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Forgive me if this question seems a little dim. =)

What exactly is desire in Buddhism? Is there a differentiation between good and bad desire? If one of the ideas is to eliminate desire, does that mean certain things, or does it mean to live only within necessity? Or, does it just mean not letting desire for "things" control you?

Thank you for listening to my confused ramblings =)

Not dim at all. Desire cannot be eliminated unless enlightened (maybe). Desire is made stronger by a materialistic bent. If someone judges their own worth with respect to their material wealth, they are feeding desire and being controlled by it as you have stated. I suppose the critical fact of Buddhist conceptions of desire is to realise that desire feeds yet more desire. Someone realising this should understand it as an unhealthy dynamic, and so be likely to live more within what is necessary. Maybe a Buddhist concept of desire helps to refocus on what really is necessary.

[PiKaChu]

Originally Posted by koan

Desire covers a wide spectrum in Buddhism. It basically comes down to what ever ones real needs to survives Versus, wants. Needs to survive are food, clothing and shelter, what ever else one wants is desire e.g. I want a nice house and a lovely Wife / husband. Althouth many people see this as just being reasonable, they are actually still wants / desire. I desire a nice house and a wife / husband. Why does one need a nice house? Why does one need a wife / husband. Can one survive without these? Wants / desire creep into every facet of our being and mostly without us even realising that it is desire. Desire can be that subtle, that even not wanting to desire is still desire.
Now as regards to good and bad desire, good desire is basicaly any desire with an altruistic approach, e.g. pracicing Buddhism, teaching , medical and generally being compassionate. The Bodhisattva vow of not attaing Buddhahood, till all sentient beings have been liberated, falls into this catergory. Basicaly bad desire falls into, I want more money, I want the best car, I want nice clothes, etc. However, we live in a society where the desire are classed as the norm. Probably whats worse than these desires is grasping. I have to have more money, I have to have the best car, I have to have nice clothest etc. Or things like I couldn't live without my husband or wife, I couldn't live without my favourite possessions etc.
So, as these small examples show, desire is virtualy ingrained into our being. This said, the ability to recognise what desire is and being able to let things go, will help relieve one from Dukkha.

And of course, the desire to be successful in something isn't a bad one. I think the desire to have a husband/wife is in our nature.

I do agree that we live in mainly a material world. And few people can dismiss it.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

What exactly is desire in Buddhism?

A most excellent question, O Wonderful Llama!

"Desire" is the cause of Dukkha. Dukkha is a technical term that is usually translated as "suffering". However, it could also be translated as "stressful", "imperfect", or "filled with anguish". Dukkha is a Sanskrit word that meant "out of jointedness" and referred to a dislocated shoulder or an imperfect join between a wheel and axel such that the wheel wobbled. Think back to all the emotional turmoil of adolescence. That's Dukkha. Think how you would feel if you learned your husband was cheating on you. That's Dukkha. The cause of Dukkha is "desire".

The word "desire" is an inprecise translation of the Sanskrit word Trishna. Trishna originally meant "thirst". It is translated as desire, clinging, greed, craving, lust, or (most often) attachment.
(BTW, "lust" in this context is not mere sexual desire, but rather sexual greed. Just so you know.)

In Buddhism, then, "desire" is Trishna. Trishna is attachment to things, including ourselves. It's more subtle than the English word "desire". When I think I cannot live without my girlfriend, that's Trishna. When I think of myself as someone who wouldn't be caught dead in anything less than designer jeans, that's Trishna. When I identify myself with a political party, that's Trishna.

Another form of "desire" in Buddhism is Dvesha. Dvesha is hatred or avoidance. To hate something is just as much of a form of attachment or clinging as to "desire" (Trishna) something.

So, when Buddhists speak of "desire" they mean Trishna or Dvesha, which are causes of Dukkha.

Is there a differentiation between good and bad desire?

Absolutely not. All Trishna and Dvesha cause "suffering" or Dukkha. That I think I possess my spouse might bring me moments of joy, but it also will inevitably bring me sorrow too. That I am attached to my political party might mean I am happy when they win elections, but it also means I am upset when they loose. That I am attached to my notion of who I am might make me feel joy or pride at times, but it also means that I will feel anxiety or even angst at times.

Perhaps if one were speaking strictly, Trishna and Dvesha are neither good nor bad, just as gravity is neither good nor bad. They just are. They are facts of life, like gravity.

If one of the ideas is to eliminate desire, does that mean certain things, or does it mean to live only within necessity? Or, does it just mean not letting desire for "things" control you?

Trishna and Dvesha apply to more than just "things". That is, they apply to more than just goods and services. If I am attached to my notion of who I am, that's Trishna. If I am attached to the charity work I do, that's Trishna. If I am attached to anything --- even if is something society calls good and proper --- that is still Trishna. If I hate anything --- even if it something society says I should hate --- that is Dvesha. Neither Trishna nor Dvesha refer only to material things.

Nirvana (a.k.a. nirbbana) is the cessation of attachment or "desire". The end of Trishna and Dvesha. The word originally meant "to snuff out, or to blow out" as when one snuffs out a candle. And it now refers to the cessation of "desire" or "attachment" and hence, the cessation of Dukkha.

The fastest way to nirvana, O Beautiful Llama, is to dial 1-800-UNCLE-SUNSTONES-SCAM. Have your credit card ready! For a mere $59.98 you can obtain Uncle Sunstone's "Nirvana Work Out Video". Yes, you'll learn the aerobic way to nirvana! Act today, and we'll throw in free of charge a genuine potato peeler!

[drew22]

It would depend what is desired, because desire can be good or not good, like everything in the universe--the ying and yang. In the universe, as I have read, can be divided into layers of koshas. The first layer is the physical body, the second is the prana level or energy--we move, the third is the lower and higher mental thoughts. In the lower mental thoughts we manage the manifested world and also that is where are lower thoughts, selfishness,etcthoughts come from your lower nature and the source comes from the manifest world, outside, or these thoughts come from what we see, hear, and touch in the universe, or maya. The layer of the higher thoughts is deeper in us, and the thoughts originate from inside us, the desired that are created here are noble, and other-oriented, the mind become buddhi, spiritulized. So desire could be said to be of two kinds, desires originate from the outside world and ones that originate within ourselves. If you were to just desire things in this world you would remain unaware, may not know why we are here, what is the suffering all about, etc, etc. You can only see you as your body. If the thoughts come from deeper inside you, you can see the spirit, see that the whole universe is in flux, here one min. gone the next. So to sum it up: we know, we do, we know what we have done. So we know, we know that we are our body or we are not, then we do according to that, we move towards our desire, which can come from maya or spirit, then after that, we know what we have done, and what we have done will affect us for the, in the long run materialism brings saddness, selflessness brings joy.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

In Buddhism, then, "desire" is Trishna. Trishna is attachment to things, including ourselves. It's more subtle than the English word "desire". When I think I cannot live without my girlfriend, that's Trishna. When I think of myself as someone who wouldn't be caught dead in anything less than designer jeans, that's Trishna. When I identify myself with a political party, that's Trishna.

Supposedly, the easiest desire to let go of is desire for things, like cars and jewelry. Because that's the easiest desire to identify, and to see why it's not healthy. The harder desire to let go of is desire for people. And hardest of all is let go of the desire for ideas.

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Another form of "desire" in Buddhism is Dvesha. Dvesha is hatred or avoidance. To hate something is just as much of a form of attachment or clinging as to "desire" (Trishna) something.

So, when Buddhists speak of "desire" they mean Trishna or Dvesha, which are causes of Dukkha.

Hatred/avoidance is simply the desire to be free of the object of one's contempt. So there are things that we desire to be close to us, and things that we desire to be far away from us.

Originally Posted by Sunstone

The fastest way to nirvana, O Beautiful Llama, is to dial 1-800-UNCLE-SUNSTONES-SCAM. Have your credit card ready! For a mere $59.98 you can obtain Uncle Sunstone's "Nirvana Work Out Video". Yes, you'll learn the aerobic way to nirvana! Act today, and we'll throw in free of charge a genuine potato peeler!

Do you take American Express or do I have to use my VISA? Ooooh please, I really need a new, name-brand potato peeler. Will the work out video work even if I don't work out? Surely just the act of paying you money is good enough to buy merit, no?

[UnTheist]

What can we desire? Is it possible to get rid of all desire for everything?

What would you be like if you had no desires? Is the best thing you could do to yourself to get rid of all desires? Or can we desire a few things that would benefit us?

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by `PaWz

What can we desire? Is it possible to get rid of all desire for everything?

What would you be like if you had no desires? Is the best thing you could do to yourself to get rid of all desires? Or can we desire a few things that would benefit us?

Trishna is often translated as "desire" but a more apt translation might be "attachment" or "clinging desire". When we become attached to our desires, we set ourselves up for Dukkha, or suffering.