Meditation (mystic, Buddhism, attend, experience, philosophy)

[white_wolf]

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forums. Looking forward to sharing some knowledge and insight with you guys.

Just have a question at the moment . . .

I recently attended a Meditation club, in which we were guided through various mental imagery, basic breathing exercises, and later on chanting.

My question is: Is meditation a state of mind? Or is it life? Can meditation be cultivated by systems of thought and imagination, of discipline? Or must it arise naturally and be discovered as something not built up, stone by stone as the meditation club seems to believe?

It seems to me that a few particular exercises may help free the mind from its own trap of conditioning, but I have my doubts about calling these exercises soley meditation. I feel that meditation is life, and it is not a matter of being able to meditate, nor a matter of disciplining the mind. Rather, it is an art of cultivation, in which every aspect of ourselves thrives, develops and grows as naturally as seed and plant.

This is just the way I see it. I'm curious, does anyone else see it this way too? Am I misjudging the practices of meditations? Please share your thoughts.

[Engyo]

Originally Posted by white_wolf

Hey everyone, I'm new to the forums. Looking forward to sharing some knowledge and insight with you guys.

Just have a question at the moment . . .

I recently attended a Meditation club, in which we were guided through various mental imagery, basic breathing exercises, and later on chanting.

My question is: Is meditation a state of mind? Or is it life? Can meditation be cultivated by systems of thought and imagination, of discipline? Or must it arise naturally and be discovered as something not built up, stone by stone as the meditation club seems to believe?

My answer to all of the above would be yes. To me, meditation is about learning to work with and use the mind in ways we westerners haven't explored much yet. As such there are many avenues, and I am sure new ones will continue to be discovered.

It seems to me that a few particular exercises may help free the mind from its own trap of conditioning, but I have my doubts about calling these exercises soley meditation. I feel that meditation is life, and it is not a matter of being able to meditate, nor a matter of disciplining the mind. Rather, it is an art of cultivation, in which every aspect of ourselves thrives, develops and grows as naturally as seed and plant.

This is just the way I see it. I'm curious, does anyone else see it this way too? Am I misjudging the practices of meditations? Please share your thoughts.

What are you trying to achieve by meditating? Meditation is a series of tools or a set of techniques for exercising the mind, just as workout equipment is a set of tools for exercising the body. What is the goal of your meditation? When you know what that is, you can decide which meditation techniques are best suited to work towards your particular goal.

Meditation can also be a way of life and a philosophy, and I think that is what you are seeing from the questions you are raising. Buddhism is one example of meditation AS daily life; mindfulness can be considered to be constant meditation in one sense.

[MysticSang'ha]

Meditation is a practice. It is not an end to itself, so the goal of life is not meditation. Engyo put it very well, as usual.




When one has practiced meditation enough to be an adept, one sees that his or her awareness bleeds into other parts of life..........and mindfulness will be experienced during a disagreement, displining children, solving a math problem, or doing laundry (I've been seeing a lot of that this weekend).




That is how I view it. Those are but a few mundane examples of how mindfulness is experienced in our lives.






Peace,
Mystic

[white_wolf]

Thanks for replying guys. Very interesting . . .

What are you trying to achieve by meditating? Meditation is a series of tools or a set of techniques for exercising the mind, just as workout equipment is a set of tools for exercising the body. What is the goal of your meditation? When you know what that is, you can decide which meditation techniques are best suited to work towards your particular goal.

Wow, good analogy! I'm not, in a sense, trying to achieve anything. Just sitting and being aware, and that action in itself is independent of a desire or goal. It just is.

In the meditation club, it was told that we are trying to 'create' our lives the way we wish them to be, and this can be done through meditation. De-stressing and then getting what we want (a good house, a nice car, an enjoyable job, etc.) So I suppose they would need a more defined goal.

Meditation can also be a way of life and a philosophy, and I think that is what you are seeing from the questions you are raising. Buddhism is one example of meditation AS daily life; mindfulness can be considered to be constant meditation in one sense

Yes, that sounds what I was speaking. Mindfulness.

Meditation is a practice. It is not an end to itself, so the goal of life is not meditation.

I would say that the goal of meditation is not life, either. Who was it that said simply to "Sit"? And that's as far as his teaching went to his students?

When one has practiced meditation enough to be an adept, one sees that his or her awareness bleeds into other parts of life..........and mindfulness will be experienced during a disagreement, displining children, solving a math problem, or doing laundry (I've been seeing a lot of that this weekend).

Very true! I've noticed this as well in my life. It reveals through me socially, in my writing, poetry, in talking. The list goes on as well.

Which is why I said meditation is life And I suppose I could say the same for mindfulness, now.

[white_wolf]

This caught my eye, and it seems to be in the spirit of our thread:

Meditation is something extraordinary, if you know how to do it. I am going to talk a little about it.


First of all, sit very quietly; do not force yourself to sit quietly, but sit or lie down quietly without force of any kind. Do you understand? Then watch your thinking. Watch what you are thinking about. You find you are thinking about your shoes, your saris, what you are going to say, the bird outside to which you listen; follow such thoughts and enquire why each thought arises. Do not try to change your thinking. See why certain thoughts arise in your mind so that you begin to understand the meaning of every thought and feeling without any enforcement. And when a thought arises, do not condemn it, do not say it is right, it is wrong, it is good, it is bad. Just watch it, so that you begin to have a perception, a consciousness which is active in seeing every kind of thought, every kind of feeling. You will know every hidden secret thought, every hidden motive, every feeling, without distortion, without saying it is right, wrong, good or bad. When you look, when you go into thought very very deeply, your mind becomes extraordinarily subtle, alive. No part of the mind is asleep. The mind is completely awake.


That is merely the foundation. Then your mind is very quiet. Your whole being becomes very still. Then go through that stillness, deeper, further – that whole process is meditation. Meditation is not to sit in a corner repeating a lot of words; or to think of a picture and go into some wild, ecstatic imaginings.
To understand the whole process of your thinking and feeling is to be free from all thought, to be free from all feeling so that your mind, your whole being becomes very quite. And that is also part of life and with that quietness, you can look at the tree, you can look at people, you can look at the sky and the stars. That is the beauty of life.
-Jiddu Krishnamurti

[MysticSang'ha]

I like this last post, white_wolf. The reason is that it puts so simply how to view thoughts, and that thoughts are like a river. They come and go. To become detached from thoughts isn't to banish thought completely, but to allow them to flow freely without grasping.




I see that the mind, itself, is not the thoughts that flow through it. The mind is not the feelings that emote from it. The mind is not the intellect where solutions spring from it. Meditation helps to still the mind, itself, so that thoughts, feelings, impressions, ideas, etc. can flow unimpeded and peacefully inwardly and outwardly.





Thank you for sharing, white_wolf.




Peace,
Mystic

[michel]

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

I like this last post, white_wolf. The reason is that it puts so simply how to view thoughts, and that thoughts are like a river. They come and go. To become detached from thoughts isn't to banish thought completely, but to allow them to flow freely without grasping.




I see that the mind, itself, is not the thoughts that flow through it. The mind is not the feelings that emote from it. The mind is not the intellect where solutions spring from it. Meditation helps to still the mind, itself, so that thoughts, feelings, impressions, ideas, etc. can flow unimpeded and peacefully inwardly and outwardly.





Thank you for sharing, white_wolf.




Peace,
Mystic

Well, between you and Engyo, you have pretty much said all that there is to say.

I find meditation slightly incongruous with modern day life though; and if I were to chose, I know which I would pick. Meditation is so empowering.

I personally use it to let my 'higher self' let me know if I am following an adaptive way of life. I also love it from the pure simple relaxation; I don't know where I would be today, if it was not for meditation.

[MysticSang'ha]

Originally Posted by michel

Well, between you and Engyo, you have pretty much said all that there is to say.

Thank you, my dear. I know I try, and I always enjoy reading what Engyo says on the subject.

Originally Posted by Michel

I find meditation slightly incongruous with modern day life though; and if I were to chose, I know which I would pick. Meditation is so empowering.

I hope that I can remind you that your empowerment through your meditation practices is exactly what is keeping you sane, compassionate, and centered within today's life currents. There is no reason to choose between one or the other. There is simply the choice to meditate or not, and meditation helps us to adapt to modern day life.

Originally Posted by Michel

I personally use it to let my 'higher self' let me know if I am following an adaptive way of life. I also love it from the pure simple relaxation; I don't know where I would be today, if it was not for meditation.

...........And......I don't know where RF would be today, if it was not for members like you, Michel.




Peace,
Mystic

[EnhancedSpirit]

meditation is a pretty vague term.

Sometimes I 'meditate' on a problem, but that is not the same as when I do some sort of meditative ritual (om-ing, or drumming). Meditation can also just be taking a moment to release attachement, or a moment to appreciate beauty. Meditation is sometimes used to attract things, or it may be used to repel unwanted things. It is just too broad, like love, they both have many meanings, and many degrees of intensity, and different purposes.

[MysticSang'ha]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

meditation is a pretty vague term.

Sometimes I 'meditate' on a problem, but that is not the same as when I do some sort of meditative ritual (om-ing, or drumming). Meditation can also just be taking a moment to release attachement, or a moment to appreciate beauty. Meditation is sometimes used to attract things, or it may be used to repel unwanted things. It is just too broad, like love, they both have many meanings, and many degrees of intensity, and different purposes.

I don't disagree with you here, EnhancedSpirit.



There are visualization meditations, devotional meditations, mantra (chanting) meditations, yantra (focusing on symbols) meditations, walking meditations, zazen meditations............there are so many ways to practice.




Meditation cannot and should not be narrowed to define the spiritual practices of Eastern traditions. When my Catholic mother kneels before the crucifix and prays to Jesus, I see her performing a certain type of meditation. She may not be sitting in a lotus posture, with mudra-positioned hands, chanting OM MANI PADME HUM..........but I believe her practice is equally valid and equally effective.




I feel so much gratitude today......thank you for contributing another point-of-view to the discussion, EnhancedSpirit!





Peace,
Mystic